GL Exclusive: Anti-Vaxxers responses – Part 2

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GL arranged a panel of anti-vaxxers to answer vaccination-related questions.

Part one featured 2 panelists. Part two features one response from 3 panelists.

GreaterLakewood reports extensively on Measles outbreaks, news and other information. In fact, GL posted 30+ measles-related stories in the past 3 months. This is a way to hear their side of the story and ‘put it out there’.

8 questions were presented by GL readers to the panel. The first part was posted a month ago and was viewed over ten thousand times. It can be viewed HERE.

Question #1  

What’s it like knowing that you’re the cause of the rise of Anti-Semitism? We the 97% suffer from antisemitism thanks to the 3% who don’t vaccinate.  Does any of the effects on innocent people that you have caused make you think twice about your movement? 

Panelist: We all suffer from the rise of anti-Semitism today. The claim that those who choose not to vaccinate are causing anti-Semitism is erroneous as it is under the assumption that vaccines are perfectly safe and effective and that those who avoid them are harming others.

IT IS 100% CLEAR TO ONE WHO CHOOSES NOT TO VACCINATE THAT VACCINES CAUSE HARM. We will explain why below, but we all agree that fear of Anti-Semitism is not a reason to stop doing the right thing. Refusing to shake a woman’s hand at an important event might seem to cause anti-Semitism but the Jew who remains with conviction knows that his actions can only create Kiddush Hashem and will not bring harm to his nation. In any case, this movement is not anymore associated with Jews than non-Jews and is no cause for Anti-Semitism. The Jewish media and others are the ones pointing fingers and putting us in a bad light. They are kindling the fire of Sinaah, Machlokes, and Pirud. 

The vaccine risk awareness movement is very misunderstood amongst the public, and one who is genuinely concerned about anti-Semitism should be equally as curious to understand the reasoning behind such seemingly irresponsible behavior. We do not attempt to convince you or to persuade you in any way, rather we ask that you put your assumptions on hold for just a few minutes and hear where we are coming from. At the very least we hope to foster some more understanding between the two sides and mitigate machlokes and misunderstanding as much as possible.

Question #2  

Do you remember the polio epidemic? Do you know why these days polio is extinct in the United States? Because of vaccinations. Why don’t you learn from history?

Panelist: The mortality rates from diseases such as, diphtheria, polio, and measles, declined by 95-98% prior to the introduction of these vaccines. See here at length.

Also, many once-deadly diseases such as cholera, typhoid, typhus, tuberculosis, and scarlet fever, declined and disappeared AT THE SAME RATE AND DURING THE EXACT SAME TIME PERIOD AS THE OTHER DISEASES, BUT WITHOUT ANY VACCINE. Therefore, the conclusion that mortality rates declined solely because of a vaccine is questionable, at best. See here at length.

Regarding polio, pertussis (whooping cough), and influenza, the vaccines only protect the one who received them from severe symptoms of these diseases, but not from contracting the diseases and transmitting them to others. (Therefore, someone who does take the vaccine is just as likely to spread these diseases as someone who does not.) In fact, someone vaccinated is more likely to spread disease, as the vaccinated could have an asymptomatic infection, and will not take the necessary precautions to avoid public places while infected. See here point number 4 on the downloadable pdf and sources.

If we were convinced of the efficacy and safety of a vaccine against a deadly global epidemic, we would surely vaccinate against it.

Question #3 


So many Gedolim came out against it. R’ Moshe Sternbach, R Elyashiv and many others.  If you do it for religious reasons, who is your leading Posek?

Panelist: It is important to realize that most of the rabbanim paskening that you must vaccinate have admitted that they have NOT researched both sides of the sugya. Their psakim are given based on numbers and statistics and information only from one side of the debate and do not consider the claims of many, albeit a minority, of doctors and scientists who claim otherwise.

The Rabbonim feel this topic is a one-way street that doesn’t need investigation, because they’re relying heavily on the opinion of local doctors whom they trust implicitly. However, these Rabbonim refuse to verify how much research the doctors have done on this topic, or they think the doctors have so much experience that they don’t need to research. Many Rabbonim suffice to pasken that this is a sofeik and we follow the rules of majority. One who researches this topic with the troves of available information learns that there is no sofeik and therefore no basis to pasken with halachic rules applicable in the place of a sofeik.

Below is just a tiny sampling of professionals speaking out against vaccines.

A. Dr. Luc Montagnier is a French virologist and Nobel laureate who discovered HIV and proved that it causes AIDS. Dr. Montagnier has won dozens of prestigious awards and is a member of both The Academy of Sciences and Academy of Medicine. He, along with oncology professor Dr. Henri Joyeux, alerted the world to the dangers of vaccination, explaining that the aluminum adjuvants being used in them are toxic and cause neurological harm and many forms of cancer.

B. Dr. Yehuda Schoenfeld, the world’s foremost authority on autoimmunity, is a co-author of the text book Vaccines and Autoimmunity, a book in which he explores the role of adjuvants- specifically aluminum in vaccines- and how they can induce diverse autoimmune clinical manifestations in genetically prone individuals.

C. Dr. Tetyana Obukhanych Ph.D. is a top immunologist and author of the book Vaccine IllusionHow Vaccination Compromises Our Natural Immunity and What We Can Do to Regain Our Health. She clarifies that artificial manipulation of the immune system through vaccination makes children more susceptible to suffer and die from other diseases. The artificial disease process triggered by vaccination weakens and compromises a child’s immune system so that even if children are protected temporarily from the “target” disease of the vaccine, they are more vulnerable to getting sick and dying from any other diseases in their environment. Therefore, vaccines are causing more harm than good in their role of “disease prevention”.

D. Dr. Teresa Deisher is a top stem cell researcher.  Through her studies and lab work with stem cells and human DNA, she has proven that DNA fragments from the aborted fetal cell lines in live virus vaccines, such as MMR and Varicella, can cause autoimmune disease, autism, and cancer. Stem cells, in particular, she explains, have a tendency to readily absorb tiny DNA fragments from the vaccine, as it is difficult for the cell to differentiate those fragments from its own DNA. Once inside the cell, the DNA fragments have the ability to insert themselves in to the host’s DNA and cause them to mutate, through a process called insertional mutagenesis. These mutations are the cause of many disorders such as cancer, autoimmune disease, and autism.

E. Dr. Christopher Exley is a fellow of the Royal Society of Biology, and is a professor of bioinorganic chemistry at Keele University.  Dr. Exley has been studying aluminum for the past thirty-five years, and he has recently been studying the brains of autistic children.  His studies reveal startling information.  Of the one hundred brains he has in his database, the children with autism have by far the most aluminum in their brain tissue, even exceeding those with Alzheimer’s disease.  More shocking to Dr. Exley was his discovery of the location of the aluminum in the brain.  The aluminum was found specifically in the immune cells in the brain, as they had transported it there from the injection site of vaccination; thus, Dr Exley has proven how aluminum adjuvants are implicated in causing autism.

F. Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, as mentioned earlier, is a top neurologist and expert on autism.  Dr. Zimmerman was the former Director of Medical Research at the prestigious Kennedy Krieger Institute at John Hopkins University. He has proven that vaccines can cause autism in children with an underlying mitochondrial disorder.  These children are lacking in cellular energy as a result of their mitochondrial dysfunction, and they, therefore, do not have enough energy to expel the toxins after vaccination. This overload of toxins can lead to brain inflammation, or autism.

G. Dr. Boyd Haley, Ph.D. is Emeritus Professor of Chemistry and Biochemistry at the Marky Cancer Center, University of Kentucky. His extensive work with mercury has enabled him to alert the public to the extreme toxicity of mercury, EVEN IN EXCEEDINGLY SMALL AMOUNTS. He also expounds on the dangers of the synergistic effects of aluminum and antibiotics in vaccines in the presence of mercury.  Mercury is far more toxic to the nerves in the presence of aluminum. Antibiotics prevents the body from excreting mercury, and it dramatically enhances the toxicity of thimerosal, a mercury compound, to neurons in culture.

H. Dr. Christopher Shaw, professor of the Department of Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences at the University of British Columbia, became the first scientist ever to test the aluminum used in vaccines in a biological setting, in a study published in 2009.  He and his colleagues injected mice with the human dose- equivalent of aluminum, mimicking the vaccine schedule.  Rapidly, these mice began to display behavioral deficits of motor function, as well as cognitive deficits. Upon dissecting these mice, Dr. Shaw found massive damage to motor neurons.  Dr. Shaw then went on to publish a paper in which he discussed how aluminum was never tested for safety in the pediatric population, and that his experimental research clearly shows that “aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk of autoimmunity, long- term brain inflammation,  and associated neurological complications, and  may thus have profound and widespread adverse health effects.”

RELATED: GL Exclusive: Anti-Vaxxers responses – Part 1


The following Roshei Yeshiva and Gedolim have been cited saying that it is a parent’s right to decide whether or not to vaccinate their children and that schools may not exclude children who are unvaccinated:

  • Rav Chaim Kanievsky (see letter below)
  • Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky
  • Rav Aryeh Malkiel Kotler,
  • Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel
  • Rav Mattisyahu Salamon
  • Rav Laizer Ginsberg

See this letter stating it would be a Bizayon Hatorah and a Chillul Hashem for schools to not admit non-vaccinated children. If you take a closer look at R’ Moshe Sternbuch’s psak, he says that one cannot rely on rov rofim (majority
of doctors) in a case where the miut rofim (minority) claim that something is pikuach nefesh. Accordingly, in a time where there is NO outbreak, then NOT vaccinating is not pikuach nefesh, and based on that, vaccines should be assur. He says that in a time of outbreak, BASED ON THE STATISTICS HE WAS SHOWN which is 1 in 1,000 deaths, one would be mechayev to vaccinate. The CDC website itself clarifies that prior to the vaccine, about 400 people out of approximately 4 million cases died from the measles. This translates into a death rate of 1 in 10,000 cases, or about 2 per million of the population at large. This would obviously result in an entirely different psak.

Rav Sternbuch also based his psak on the assertion of doctors that vaccines don’t cause any harm whatsoever. This is patently false. The government itself admits that there is vaccine damage and therefore instituted a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP). This program has, to date, paid out over 4 billion dollars to compensate vaccine damage to those who have medically proven, in court, that their children have been damaged by vaccines. Those winning compensation in court are but a fraction of the total who sue the government, yet due to very strict legal criteria, many are unable to win, and many others don’t attempt to sue.

Regarding Rav Eliyashiv, his psak is only as per the facts presented. To rely on the Psak of R’ Eliyashiv, one would need to know what set of facts were presented to him. A letter from R’ Morgenstern who presented this shailah to R’ Elyashiv reveals his understanding about the measles virus and the measles vaccine. Only two out of his seven pointers were true, which leaves us wondering how reliable were the “facts” that he presented to R’ Elyashiv.

Those who are choosing not to vaccinate are basing their opinions on a growing body of mainstream experts in every field of science and medicine who are coming out publicly and stating their concern with the safety of vaccines. Worldwide experts in the field of virology, vaccinology, immunology, toxicology, autism, and stem cell research, among many others, have confirmed, through their own studies or experiments, biological links between vaccines or vaccines ingredients and a host of disorders and diseases. https://www.learntherisk.org/. Look at the correlation between the infant mortality rate in the US and the rise of vaccine requirements https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/.

Question #4


Assuming you’re scared of autism, let’s say your stats are valid, the stats on Measles causing brain issues are a higher percent!?

Panelist: This is not difficult to figure out. The CDC has stats on both. The CDC has just updated the rate of autism in New Jersey to 1 in 36. The CDC states that there was a measles surveillance study in the 1980s and 1990s which showed that there were half as many measles encephalitis cases as there were deaths, making it 1 in 20,000 cases. Of these cases, 25% (1 in 80,000 cases of measles) resulted in residual neurological injury. Your claim is simply untrue and for one weighing the risks vs benefits of vaccinating or not vaccinating, in this case it’s pretty clear. See here.

There have been doctors that have been telling Rabbanim and parents that measles has a mortality rate of 1 in 1,000 cases, but the CDC website itself clarifies that prior to the vaccine, about 400 people out of 4 million cases died from the measles. This translates into a death rate of 1 in 10,000 cases.

Between 1900 and 1962, the year before the measles vaccine was introduced, the mortality rate from measles had already declined by over 98%.
https://childhealthsafety.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/0707276measles_analg.jpg,
https://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/#Meas_ScarlFev_etc. With such a steep decline in mortality, it’s reasonable to assume that by now, even without any vaccine, mortality from measles would be significantly lower than it was already, if not completely gone on its own, as was the case with typhus, typhoid, or cholera.

Given all this hard data, it is clear that autism, a devastating disability, is far more common than complications from measles.

There have been many studies linking autism to vaccines. The CDC claims on its website that they have done studies and they have proven that vaccines do not cause autism. A closer look at the studies on the CDC website shows clearly that the studies were done on ONE ingredient and ONE vaccine.  Clearly this cannot be conclusive enough to state so boldly that all vaccines do not cause autism if no studies were done by the CDC on the dozens of other vaccines and ingredients within them. Hundreds of studies done by independent scientists proving a link between vaccines and autism.

Question #5

If you can avoid an illness that can result in brain damage, why not avoid it? Furthermore, you expose so many people to illness by not vaccinating.

Panelist: You have just summed up the entire debate in one line! This is the question that every person who begins to look into the sugya asks himself. If one has any reason to believe that the way to avoid an illness that can result in brain damage can itself cause brain damage, logic would dictate that he should research the illness and its risks as well as the prevention method (vaccines) and its risks before he decides to take that measure. Again, if the way to avoid exposing other to illness may include serious detriment to oneself, one would have to research how much exposure and illness he will be causing vs the risks of the vaccines.

Why would one even begin to believe vaccines may be unsafe if majority of our doctors, including our local pediatricians, whom we trust, claim they are safe?

Of course, it takes training and expertise to understand and research this topic thoroughly. On a simple level, though, there are enough discrepancies within the CDC itself that can cause a layperson to have less confidence in their claims and begin to question them. Twelve senior CDC scientists stepped forward in 2016 with a formal report that the CDC is overrun by corporate influences and conflicts of interests,
and CDC leadership is no longer objectively serving the healthcare needs of our country.

Many other CDC scientists have exposed insider corruption as well: Transcripts of the Simpsonwood conference exposed that the CDC knew of the danger of thimerosal but
tried to cover it up.

William Thompson, a senior CDC epidemiologist on the 2004 MMR/autism study became a whistleblower and exposed that CDC omitted statistically significant information linking vaccines to autism, and failed to follow the study protocol.

Gary Goldman, another CDC scientist charged with overseeing the surveillance system of the use of the chickenpox vaccine, made the public aware that the CDC refused to report that the chickenpox vaccine increased the rate of shingles, which is a more serious and chronic condition than chickenpox.

Diane Harper, the scientist who developed the Gardasil/HPV vaccine, revealed that she never intended her vaccine to be used in young children; at that age the vaccine can be dangerous. “The vaccine is not for young girls, and not only may not protect them, but may cause the rates of cervical cancer to increase.” See also here.

Dr. Bernadine Healy, former director of the NIH (National Institute of Health) and former president of the American Red Cross, revealed that public health officials intentionally avoid researching adverse reactions from vaccines for fear that the results would ruin the public’s faith in the vaccine program. Watch HERE.

Dr. Juli Gerberding, former head of the CDC and current Merck board member (the leading vaccine maker), admitted that vaccines can trigger autism in individuals with an underlying mitochondrial disease, after the CDC denied a vaccine-autism connection. Watch HERE.


Dr. Andrew Zimmerman is one of the top neurologists and autism experts in the country. He is the government’s own pro-vaccine medical expert who helped the government and the pharmaceutical industry defeat vaccine/autism claims in vaccine court.

He now publicly revealed that the government suppressed his true opinion that vaccines can, and do cause autism in certain susceptible children. He informed the government about this over a decade ago, but they hid his opinion and misrepresented it in court in order to unjustly defeat 5000 autism cases.

Question #6

What do you feel about measles parties? (where people who are not vaccinated get the measles on purpose since you can only get it once…)

Panelist: I’m not sure what your question is.

If you are asking if I personally would join a measles party, that is a personal question which I cannot answer and depends on many variables.

If you are asking if I am afraid of the measles, the answer is no, and that is because the statistics of the measles causing danger are very low. My parents and grandparents well remember the measles the way I remember the chickenpox and it was never considered a dangerous disease, rather a normal childhood illness that all children experienced and then were immune for life.

If you are asking WHY people have measles parties (out of genuine interest and curiosity and not out of sarcastic probing, of course…) Think of it this way: If you chose not to vaccinate because it is clear to you that the risks of the MMR are greater than the risks of the measles, and assuming you are as afraid of measles as you were of the common cold, and if your child not being immune to measles equals expulsion
from school, what would be the logical course of action?

The measles virus isn’t a mystery. The level of risk of injury from the measles is known, and it’s very low (see answer to #4 and #5). However, the measles vaccine has been proven in vaccine court to cause serious injury.

The CDC and the pharmaceutical companies have refused to do any saline-placebo study on this vaccine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj_jozfvjuU. There have been many studies that have shown that vaccines do cause injury. There have also been thousands of credible stories of measle vaccine injury. What’s unknown is the level of risk that is involved. Because of the recent enormous pressure that’s being placed on people to vaccinate, some have chosen to contract the measles, an infection with known risks and treatments, over the vaccine, whose risk is unknown. (In addition, there are studies that show that contracting measles as a child can have benefits, for it strengthens the immune system by training it in how to deal with future infection, and helps significantly reduce the incidences of other severe illnesses later in life. See links to dozens of studies here.

Question #7

If You c’v had cancer would you go to the best hospital right away?

Panelist: What I hear in this question is the following: Are you normal? Do you take crazy risks when it comes to your health? If so, how can you be trusted with such an important medical decision regarding your child’s health?


How CAN a layperson make any medical decisions if they are not trained or schooled in medicine or science? It seems that people who make alternative choices in regard to their health have less “faith” in the medical system and conventional medicine than most people. Like anyone else, those people have as much of a desire to live and be well every day of their lives! If their health and wellness choices are leading
them elsewhere other than the medical establishment, they must have reason to have less faith in it.

One can argue on their reasoning but differing opinions on all matters has been around since the beginning of time…

What drives people’s confidence in the vaccine program? Most are putting faith in their local pediatricians of whom they have close-up assessment of their expertise and character. Do these doctors receive training in vaccinology, immunology, toxicology or vaccine adverse effects in medical school? The answer is NO, and they will tell you this themselves. They are taught how to administer vaccines and they are told that they are safe and effective.

So, who are the doctors trusting? The CDC. The eminent body of doctors and scientists who have the knowledge and expertise it takes to keep us healthy and safe from disease. It would make sense to rely on them without question… until one finds inconsistencies and discrepancies within the CDC that are impossible to ignore. This would naturally lead a person to do more research to understand exactly what is going on… hence the vaccine risk awareness movement, a natural outcome of the following facts, easily findable online.

Question #8

What are the interesting health things you have, for example, some people do certain things when they pass an EZ pass, others don’t drink pasteurized milk etc.

Panelist: Firstly, you must realize that there are many, many people who don’t vaccinate but in every other aspect of health and general lifestyle are typical and mainstream. They might not appreciate being lumped with a category of people who are judged for doing weird and unconventional things in the name of health.

They have made an intelligent decision based on logic and research and deserve respect for that alone. That being said, many a thing was once considered weird and has now been accepted into society. From different therapies to eating less sugar to avoiding smoking, and the list goes on… I’m sure you can think of a thing or two that you do that others might not understand but you have solid reasoning behind it and
experience to prove it…


Remember the Mishna “al tadin es chavercha ad shetagia limkomo…”? It is most difficult to apply when we have no understanding at all why someone would do something that we would never do… The very first step would be to be curious about “mikomo”… perhaps to ask genuinely or at the very least to simply respect another Jew even when he makes choices that, from where you stand, you cannot understand.


If you choose to comment, be respectful.

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93 COMMENTS

  1. Question number 7 was left unanswered?
    And in question number 8 is the answer that the panelist him/herself doesn’t do anything interesting, or that s/he does but it’s not connected to the vaccine issue?

  2. I “choose to comment and I will be respectful” because I will never again read GL and I hope others will do the same. I didn’t realize that this new Lakewood website was created to serve as an antivaxxer forum to give space to those who know nothing about science nor how to evaluate research nor how to present the words of experts without twisting their opinions to make it sound like their perspective is against vaccination. I guess that GL is an antivaxxer funded website and its true purpose has now been revealed. As they say, “It’s been nice knowing you!” Going forward, I’ll stay with the frum websites that are credible and don’t stoop to yellow journalism to try to create a readership and serve your cult. How low! At least the antivaxxers now have a place to go for their “news” so they can stop sullying credible Jewish websites.

    • You have attacked the writers and the web site but you have not showed how science stands behind you. Why don’t you try to prove your point instead of running away?

    • If you need a few places to run because the pain of being betrayed by those who convinced you to blindly accept vaccines is so rip roaringly deeply painful – there’s Voices for Vaccines (financially supported by pharma), theYeshivaWorld.com (supported by doctors who run “chessed” operations for children suffering from vaccine-induced cancer),or if you call the Agudah, Maimonides, Hatzalah, and the OU – all being financially supported by doctors and pHARMa-business people on their boards – they can use your help to coerce more fellow Jews to inject verifiable filth into their families bloodstreams that affect ALL your brains.

      Allow me to remind you – we ALL live in the same boat – ALL Jews & ALL humanity – it’s actually an important way to understand the Oneness of Hashm – study the 13 principles of faith. Therefore- if you are promoting a barbaric and criminal procedure that you “believe” wrongly to be beneficial by blind trusting fickle human doctors who will cowardly not admit to ignoring vaccine-induced inflammation and neurotoxicity that they refuse to acknowledge in their patients – then – what can you expect that you’d be saying to yourself when the truth is accepted by ALL??? Proud or ashamed of yourself?

      It may be scary to admit the obvious – but it will be scarier still if you ignore this opportunity to accept, in humility, that you are wrong.

      If you have strong trust in Hashm – your family can heal from vaccine damage – but not if you don’t acknowledge that vaccines are a ploy to sicken, damage, & kill. You and your doctors cannot know more about vaccines than people like me who intensely researched EVERY single angle possible about vaccines. It’s time to grow up – admit your ignorance and move on.

      Paraphrasing Eliyahu haNavi on Har Carmel (May he come soon) – Im Hashm Hu haElokim – l’chu acharav, v’im haVax, l’chu acharav!

    • Yes, @vaccinatory. We’d like to hear how you feel the article misconstrued the science. We’re all ears. Are you just working for the mafia competition sites of GL and trying to attack this site?

    • Attacking sights and the antivaxxers don’t make vaccines safer, better researched and a creation that saves lives. In my opinion as long as those that shun anti-vaxxers don’t bring proof, we will assume that they are doing that to protect their guilty conscience from injecting their children with something that can potentially have a detrimental effect in their children’s’ lives in all areas and have a hard time swallowing it that they may have been able to prevent many of their maladies. They may not be aware of it, just using that as a defense mechanism.
      Wishing ALL of Klal Yisroel to have healthy children. And may all those “normal” childhood issues stop, as they only became normal now that there are vaccines. Many issues children have today, did not exist in the past.

    • It appears to me YOU are the one who is refraining from science backed arguments. AND I beg you and the rest of the PRO vaxxers to refrain from calling people who do not vaccinate ‘anti-vaxxers’. THAT is propaganda. Too bad people fall for that. People who are seriously interested in the truth and in proper safety testing for the substances being injected in themselves or their children are PRO-SAFETY not anti vaxxers. it is a real shame that this issue continues to divide the Jewish People. I stand in shame before Hashem, because we are so divided. I pray He unite us in the healthiest way possible.

    • @ vaccinator I challenge you to bring forth all those thousands of studies supporting vaccine safety and efficacy.
      I have already offered thousands of dollars to people that may have them. So far still waiting. Is 100,000 dollars to little to bring just 2 or 3 of the studies i asked for? If they are there, it shouldn’t take more than a few seconds to email them to me. Who makes 100,000 in a few seconds?
      @vaccinator and anyone that dismisses our concerns. Sorry you may have lots of pain and guilt needing to admit to the claims of the anti-vaxxers. Wouldnt that pain intensify when the truth will come out? Who knows how much more damage you may do to patients and your own flesh and blood? Wouldnt you want to at least look into it, so they can be minimized to some extent? What is done is done. But now that people are talking, you wont forgive yourself by continuing when the truth is revealed.

    • Good riddens! People who have closed their minds are an anathema to journalism and shedding light on the truth about this extremely important subject. What is currently happening with forced vaccination is no less than genocide, and tragically, history will once again prove the deniers wrong.

  3. This is my first comment on ANY social media, but I felt the topic is worthy. Kudos to the panelist for presenting such a cogent response to such a belligerent and patronizing set of questions. I thought this issue was pretty much settled during the last wave of public awareness few months back, but now antis have presented enough hard information to give it more consideration. Hope we can get someone from the mainstream to address this point by point.

  4. I applaud aplaud aplaud!!! More honesty. More TRUTH. People concerned with vaccine safety are intelligent, normal, people who are wise enough & courageous enough to seek the emes & make responsible decisions & should be respected rather than ostricized…maybe even listened to…if people dare to hear something other than what has been told to them for decades while public health has degenerated catastrophically over the same period of time as vaccines have proliferated. Kol hakavod!

    • It’s not clear what you’re trying to say. Can you please clarify for the benefit of the readers? Are you saying that you like chiropractors, homeopath, and techeiles, or that you’re thoroghly ignorant in all these topics? Or that you like going on irrelevant tangents. Let’s avoid the drive-by shooting attacks, lack of derech eretz, and ona’as devorim. We’re approaching the three weeks. I haven’t heard anyone claim that R’ Elyashiv said that we can make fun of another yid. And one who does so will pay gravely for their sins. If you’d like to talk on the substitave underlying issues of vaccine, let’s start a mentchlacha, scientific conversation. If not, please keep your comments to the Goyish World News website, the Lakewood Stoops to New Lows, and The Situation Room Blog. Personal, irrelevant, and nasty attacks have no place on an upstanding website such as GL which consistently has sensitivity to ALL Yidden, EVEN THOSE WITH WHOM THEY DISAGREE. Go Back to Yeshiva and start learning what it means to be a Yid. And please, stop embarrassing yourself. The only reason why society thinks that chiropractors and homeopaths are quacks in the first place is because the AMA created an anti-quackery committee wherein they intentionally ran a propaganda campaign against all industries of health that didn’t follow their path. They were found guilty in court numerous times throughout the 1900’s of doing this for the express purpose of trying to destroy another innocent industry. These other industries are labeled “alternate” simply because they’re not the ones the pharmaceuticals like. There’s nothing alternate about them. As an aside, and as alluded to in the article, many, perhaps most non- or ex-vaccinators (there’s no x in vaccines, it’s a double c; start learning how to spell…) don’t believe in homeopath or chiropractic. The questions about cancer, EzPass (as well as all the others, really), were insanely derisive…

  5. I was always intensely anti the anti vaxxers. I feel they are absolutely nuts. That’s the honest truth.
    Now, I see they have another side….
    of course I am still anti the antis but I will not hate on them. They seem like great people with solid points.

    I appreciate GL for putting this out there. The only way to address machlokes is by hearing both sides.

    IMO anyone who can’t hear both sides, is a Baal machlokes.

  6. Regarding Question 1. When it is finally comes out that vaccines are not as safe as being postulated, there is going to be a lot more backlash anti-semitism “because of all those Jewish doctors and rabbis”. The fraud in scientific studies and vested interests in Federal agencies will be found out. It took almost 50 years to see Monsanto’s glyphosate being a cause of non-hodgkin’s lymphoma cancer.

    Bias and conflict of interest abound in government, for instance, the CDC spends about $5 Billion of their $11 Billion budget buying vaccines to distribute, you can’t imagine the level of bias there is to push out vaccines and that they are so safe. What one sized drug fits all? And every vaccine that comes out is perfect for everyone? In the same dosage for babies and adults?

    How many times have the experts fooled us? Smoking, not to breast feed, lead in gasoline, thalidomide, PCBs, Asbestos and dozens of vaccines that have been recalled I could go on for pages. And the vaccine educated or as society calls them, the “anti-vaxxers” have done their research. Why else would they put themselves through this? Most people still ignore the possible that a “problem” with their child could be in part from a vaccine.

  7. Amazing stuff, well thought and deep ,please share as much as possible because it may safe life’s both physically and spiritually.

  8. The medical establishment modeled itself after the church of the Middle Ages. It’s so ironic because this generation considers itself so smart, yet is so pitifully ignorant about their very own physical well being! Our chinuch is much to blame since the foundation of chinuch is to create self reliant resilient people. So look around – count the “chessed” organizations that don’t care to rid themselves of the need to “rescue” rather than empower people. Count the broken families, the young widows/widowers/never marrieds, learning disabled, Adhd, diabetes, etc. , etc. – it’s just too heartbreaking to list again and again.

    The common denominator is destroyed resilience – which is caused by the Galus edom mentality – fear of pain and the immature need for immediate gratification and superficial “success”. The vaccine was always about instilling such fear as to convince people that ANYTHING is safer than the VPD. When it came to measles, mumps, & chicken pox – the scamming started with the convenience claim and later the message was filled with fear of disease – since that works best on the zombified majority.

    Time to go back to basics – the body is Divinely created. It is so deeply intricate that we shouldn’t be allowing ANYONE to be tampering with our immune/nervous system – certainly not convicted criminals – which run ALL the pHARMa/vax operations. Hashm can give everyone enough parnassah without their need to harm people with vaccines. Time to say NO to ALL vaccines! Wake up! Be courageous for the EMES!!!!

  9. Thank you for publishing this article. Such solid, honest responses! Hopefully this will give pause to those who aim to punish non vaxxers for their personal choices. There’s truly another side to the debate.

  10. Thank you for being open to a discussion on this topic. If we truly have confidence in the benefits outweighing the risks of vaccines, we can have confidence in discussing this in an intelligent and non-aggressive manner.

  11. excellent! very well done! and I would be willing to listen to pro vaccinate points of view if they were as substantial and well thought out–thanks for this

  12. If you’re comfortable putting your children’s lives in the hands of known criminals, go for it.

    Massive Fraud In Merck MMR (Measles Mumps Rubella) Vaccine Testing

    “According to the whistleblowers’ court documents, Merck’s misconduct was far-ranging: It:

    • “failed to disclose that its mumps vaccine was not as effective as Merck represented, 

    • (ii) used improper testing techniques, 

    • (iii) manipulated testing methodology, 

    • (iv) abandoned undesirable test results, 

    • (v) falsified test data, 

    • (vi) failed to adequately investigate and report the diminished efficacy of its mumps vaccine, 

    • (vii) falsely verified that each manufacturing lot of mumps vaccine would be as effective as identified in the labeling, 

    • (viii) falsely certified the accuracy of applications filed with the FDA, 

    • (ix) falsely certified compliance with the terms of the CDC purchase contract, 

    • (x) engaged in the fraud and concealment describe herein for the purpose of illegally monopolizing the U.S. market for mumps vaccine, 

    • (xi) mislabeled, misbranded, and falsely certified its mumps vaccine, and 

    • (xii) engaged in the other acts described herein to conceal the diminished efficacy of the vaccine the government was purchasing.”

    —LegalExaminer
    https://www.legalexaminer.com/health/massive-fraud-in-merck-mmr-vaccine-testing/

    Fetal DNA Contaminants Found in Merck’s Measles Vaccines

    Merck’s MMR II vaccine (as well as the chickenpox, Pentacel, and all Hep-A containing vaccines) is manufactured using human fetal cell lines and is heavily contaminated with human fetal DNA from the production process.

    Levels in our children can reach up to 5 ng/ml after vaccination, depending on the age, weight and blood volume of the child. That level is known to activate Toll-like receptor 9 (TLR9), which can cause autoimmune attacks.

    Furthermore, children with autistic disorder have antibodies against human DNA in their circulation that non- autistic children do not have. These antibodies may be involved in autoimmune attacks in autistic children. [iv]

    http://vaccineimpact.com/2019/fetal-dna-contaminants-found-in-mercks-measles-vaccines/

    Merck’s Gardasil ‘Science’ (lack thereof) Taken to Court

    The Gardasil trial is moving forward. This must-watch, just released video is full of jaw-dropping facts about Gardasil, Merck’s third-highest grossing product, and the clinical trials leading up to its release upon an unsuspecting public.

    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/video/video-playlist/rfk-jr-video-and-facts-about-gardasil/

    The Vaccinated Spreading Measles: WHO, Merck, CDC Documents Confirm

    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/vaccinated-spreading-measles-who-merck-cdc-documents-confirms

    What Does Merck Think of You?

    https://www.facebook.com/VaXismNEWS/videos/664178844042985/UzpfSTc2ODIzODQwOToxMDE1NzMzMTEyOTkwMzQxMA/?fref=pymk

    Just to put it into perspective…
    Merck’s “FDA-approved” Vioxx killed 60,000 Americans— the same number that died in Vietnam. Fraudulent studies got VIOXX approved—and people want to entrust their children’s lives to this criminal organization?

    And even though Merck had to pay a $4 billion fine, they made many times that amount from this product. (Paying huge fines are just the cost of doing business.)

    But don’t worry—no Merck executives’ careers were harmed in the prosecution of this company. These SERIAL KILLERS* still received their bonuses while people died.

    Why doesn’t Merck just change their name to Murder Inc. already?

    * Other serial killers have gotten the death penalty for killing far fewer people.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20170125113949/http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vaccines-are-totally-safe-say-the-people-who-brought_us_58877dbce4b08f5134b624b3

    https://www.foxnews.com/story/merck-agrees-to-4-85-billion-settlement-over-pain-medication-vioxx

  13. I’m still amazed, I think I’m dreaming

    Finally a Uncensored post that shows that anti-vaxxers are not just the idiots but rather people that have done some research and saw that the science is not as clear as people think it is

    Is this a sign that mashiach is coming??

  14. Very good responses to patronizing questions! Kudos! I’m copying a pasting a portion of this to share on my personal FB page! ❤️

  15. Please keep in mind, most people who question vaccine safety are not people who have always been against vaccines. Most are parents or grandparents who were initially all for vaccines. They are parents or grandparents who followed the recommendations of the doctors without questions. But then, SOMETHING happened to make them question… And when their child or grandchild was harmed by vaccines, those doctors who they trusted denied the obvious, offered no help, and in many cases were hostile.

  16. About time someone is willing to have an open honest discussion.
    As for “chiropractors for ear infections” .that reminds me of an incident that happened more than a decade ago. As I was waiting my turn with my child at a chiropractor who successfully helped many children with ear infections, I noticed a woman whom I thought was a daughter of a well known pediatrician who was vocal in his negative views of chiropractors treating children. I said “aren’t you daughter of Dr.so and so.., you father knows you come here?” To which she replied “don’t you dare ever mention to him that you met me here”…

  17. “m’galgilim zechus al y’dai zakai”! The truth about vaccines is completely exposed and it’s just a matter of time and hopefully, not too many more destroyed families, before the truth is universally accepted and the perpetrators of this genocidal crime are brought to justice. The owner of this website has clearly earned tremendous zechusim for allowing the emes to be presented on this worldwide web page. Giving voice for emes and ahavas Yisrael is in emulation of the “hero” of this week’s parsha – Pinchus (and at the end of parshas Balak in chutz laaretz). Pinchus was NOT popular by any stretch of the imagination for what he did, as were Yehoshua and Calev just as unpopular with the Dor Dei’ah ready to stone them. So – we have plenty of precedents for the emes not going after the “majority opinion” of establishment doctors and their rabbanim who know just as pitifully little about health as their pharma-trained doctors. Now, too – let’s listen to that clarion call “Mee l’Hashem Ailay” – and courageously leave no stone unturned concerning how vaccines have and continue to poison, inflame, and mutate our Divinely designed perfect bodies AND BRAINS. Let’s all openly investigate the moral and ethical characters of all those pushing the sheker vaccine policy in our yeshivos, camps, and shuls. Having invested thousands of hours into examining every single possible aspect of vaccines – there’s little question for anyone who wisely rejects vaccines – that if you or your children are rejected from shuls and yeshivos – that that is a LOVING chessed and message from Hashem that these institutions are being guided by the hashkafa of k’fear’ah. “lo yachalif ha’Kayl, l’lo yamir dasso” – Since when is sinas chinam and onaas d’varim (coercing vaccines IS onaas d’varim) now a mitzvah to do for the arbitrary unsubstantiated notion that unpoisoned children are dangers to others???? We have allowed doctors who have been indoctrinated that they are some sort of gods to become arrogant tyrants given free reign to destroy our relationships and sholom in families, schools, shuls, and communities. So, with deep heartfelt emotions – you deserve a standing ovation for allowing this conversation. Please do NOT back off when the “paper tigers” start their vitriol against you and threaten to not support Greater Lakewood. Recognize that this IS Hashem’s will to publicize the emes and bring back sanity and derech eretz. Please keep up the good work and keep learning. For REALLY sensible protection from fearful diseases – please check into the medicine that is difficult to obtain in pHARMa-controlled places, as well as, mocked – homeopathy – used by more than a half billion people worldwide and growing. Freeandhealthychildren and Worldwidechoice

  18. A lovely article with very nice responses even though I must say the questions themselves are worded to make the responder look bad.

    I want to be honest here and add to the conversation. I did not question vaccines or the or safety at all until I was 38 years old. At the time I went to GET a vaccination for Tetanus. I wa not aware this could not be done as a separate shot and instead had to have a combination vaccine that also included Diptheria and Pertusis. Two diseases I had never even heard of. That day was the last day I was ever healthy. I was out running just days before and did a seven mile run and flipped a few truck tires afterwards. I was healthy having no health conditions and would only rarely get something like a cold. I honestly had been so healthy I had not been to a Doctor for any problems in years. The last time I was there my Doctor did Bloodwork and told me I was doing great and to be happy with myself. Post vaccine I was at the Doctos office three or four times that month and by my last visit my Doctor told me he though ( after describing all these weird symptoms that came out of nowhere) I was in the early stages of having Multiple Sclerosis. I asked about the vaccine and my concerns were dismissed. I spend a Year doing this dance with everyone ignoring me asking about the vaccine. How could I develop all the neurological problems by magic out of nowhere ? When I finally got my hands on an actual vaccine insert on the FDA website it had all the answers I was looking for. Dozens of pages of risks and possible injuries were listed including neurological problems. Why didn’t any of the Doctors know this or even entertain the idea of this possibility ? I had to find the answers for myself in the end as I only got a lot of blank stares, declarations that I was going through depression, or I was stressed out or the best and the one that swore me off Doctors for good was you just need a vacation ! I did not need a vacation. I went on one and was so weak and tired I slept through the whole thing.
    It became clear I needed to learn more about vaccines myself If I wanted to fix my rapidly decreasing health. What is in them and what can these things can do to the body. In all honesty what I began to learn was horrifying. I had difficulty at first because any searches for vaccine injury would only yield results about Autism. Now I understand why. Children are the most vaccinated population in the country and as a result they end up with more injuries than anyone else. Part of what I learned is some of these ingredients don’t belong in the human body at all. Thimerosal is still in millions of doses of vaccines despite you hearing it has been removed it really hasn’t been. They have it down to trace amounts in some vaccines so they don’t need to list it but any amount of any form of mercury is dangerous. Aluminum is equally toxic and it’s the main reason why it’s in the vaccines. Your body reacts to it’s presence because it doesn’t belong there and your body amounts an immune response. It’s supposed to be against the antigen in the vaccine but this is not the same as being infected with a wild virus. There are many components in a vaccine and what happens if the immune response goes wrong ? You get autoimmunity and allergies and things of that nature. The body gets tricked and reprogrammed to fight off itself thus causing chronic pain and other conditions. There Are numerous animals used in the making of vaccines as well. many of the vaccines have residual dna from things like Monkeys, cows , dogs and other creatures. On top of that some of the vaccines use human cells obtained from aborted fetuses bot male and female. There is emerging science coming out that this dna can combine with your own and mutate. It’s called insertional mutagenesis. Vaccines all plainly state that this has never been studied or tested to see the carcinogenic or mutagenic properties of injecting these substances. As long as the vaccines create antibodies they don’t care what else happens. I personally have been treating myself for mercury poisoning because my symptoms are the same as the ones listed for it. I have since eliminated about 50-60 percent of my symptoms without the help of anyone. All I can say is that the medical establishment and the CDC are not 100% being truthful and having the right to choose or deny for yourself and your family what gets injected into it is of paramount importance. There is no telling what these laws will lead to in the future and all of you of any faith should pray that you never have to find out the hard way like mu family. My children almost lost their father. I was not in their lives for three years because I was so sick . I fought back and fought hard. it was a hard and lonely road and I did it all because I love my kids. of course I never want to see another needle near them again. Can you blame me ?

    • Much of your claims have been disproven. I wonder why you feel the need to repeat them even after that fact. For example, ‘any amount of any form of mercury is dangerous.’ That is not true, and if it were, you already have ‘any’ amount from the enviroment.

      • “Much of your claims have been disproven” by whom? Einer Aza your comment is so vague and comes across with a ridiculing tone… May you be enlightened one day and not live to regret maintaining such a hard line position.

  19. Thank you for publishing this counter to the medical establishment’s narrative that vaccines are safe and effective. The panelist does an amazing job supporting the reasons why people have chosen not to vaccinate. Many media sources refuse to print the other side of the issue. The medical establishment refuses to debate the science. They are simply trying to suppress the voice of the anti-vaxxer aka the vaccine educated. Your courage to print this response is greatly appreciated and shows your fairness and courage.

  20. Thank you for posting this article. I really hope people take the time to READ the responses CAREFULLY. They are well thought out and accurate. Many great scientists are listed, I suggest you go and look at their research. The Government agencies are all corrupted by big business. The head of the FDA stepped down three months ago and now he just took a job on the board of a pharma company. How is this even possible ? Do people not see the conflicts involved ? Likewise the head of the CDC when all the controversy started Julie Gerberding is now head of vaccines at Merck making millions with stock options to boot. She was the one who circled the wagons at the agency and nothing productive has been done since. To be fair the CDC states vaccines ( plural) don’t cause Autism but only the MMR has ever been studied. What about the 16 other vaccines ?

  21. Here’s a very logical, well thought out response from a pediatrician, Dr. Ray Andrew, regarding parent’s concerns over vaccine safety.
    “I am running into increasing numbers of patients/parents who decline to receive vaccinations. I don’t call them “anti-vaxxers” because that is the most immature way I can imagine to refer to another human being with an opinion, whether I consider it informed or not. Name-calling is what people do in politics when they don’t have an intelligent response to an opposing party’s argument or viewpoint. This is supposed to be science, not politics.
    Based on my experience, those who choose not to vaccinate care just as much about their children as you and I do. But they are looking for information. They no longer consider the AAP and the CDC as unbiased sources of information because the former has ties to the drug industry and the latter actually owns vaccine patents. These parents want me to show them long-term safety studies, which I am unable to find. They are bothered by the ingredient lists of vaccines, knowing that there are EPA-listed toxins in many of them. Some don’t like knowing that cells and DNA from aborted fetuses as well as animals are used in vaccine production. Some demand true double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled (using saline controls, not adjuvants like aluminum) trials proving efficacy, which simply do not exist, even though we keep telling everyone that this is the gold standard in medicine. Some ask why—if informed consent exists for every other procedure in medicine—doctors and governments are trying to force vaccination on them, throwing informed consent (a legal right, I was taught) out the window. Some make the argument that, if vaccines are so effective, the vaccinated shouldn’t worry about getting sick from the unvaccinated. And they ask me for scientific proof of the theory of herd immunity. I don’t remember being shown any evidence of this in medical school. It was simply taught as a self-evident fact. But my patients don’t accept “facts” anymore, not without seeing some proof.
    So, when I receive all of these communications from different organizations telling me how I am supposed to combat the growing threat of vaccine deniers, I feel like a straw man because these communications never present actual evidence to respond to the questions of these parents. They’re just talking points, empty claims, and official pronouncements.
    In conclusion, some of my patients vaccinate, and some don’t. I respect both kinds. They are both intelligent and care for their children. Last I checked, the Hippocratic oath doesn’t require me to insult people with whom I don’t agree. I present what evidence I can find, and let them choose based on their values, not mine. Maybe that’s not allowed anymore. Maybe I’m supposed to kick them out of my practice if they disagree with me. Maybe they should be kicked out of school. Out of the country, even. If that’s the America of the future, that’s not a country I would want to live in.

  22. What does a doctor in Oregon have to say about exemptions? Letter in the Ashland Daily Tidings from Howard Morningstar, MD, a Yale University trained physician, against HB3063: “I am writing to express my concern about HB 3063 which, if passed, would eliminate religious and philosophical vaccine exemptions for Oregonians.

    I am a Yale-trained medical doctor and, after serving as a federal community health center physician, have been practicing family medicine in Ashland since 1996. I have offered balanced professional vaccination advice to the parents of thousands of children in my 30 years of medical practice. My (mostly vaccinated) children were educated here in Ashland, and my grandchildren are soon to be enrolled in our local schools. So I have both personal and professional stakes in this very complex and polarizing issue.

    I have no doubt that vaccines do prevent diseases, and I am grateful that they are available to those who choose them. Over the years I’ve treated children and adults with vaccine-preventable illnesses, and I recognize the potentially serious consequences of declining vaccines. And I certainly understand public health concerns surrounding the importance of herd immunity in preventing epidemics.

    However, there is no convincing evidence that, in the long run, vaccinated children have improved health outcomes. I am concerned that, in addition to obvious immediate adverse vaccine reactions, vaccines may contribute to a variety of chronic medical conditions. I’ve often wondered if recent dramatic increases in autoimmune diseases are related to vaccines’ subtle effects on immune system development.

    Until recently, every generation of children was universally exposed to measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, etc. Perhaps (speculating here using simple Darwinian reasoning) exposure to these diseases actually confers some natural selection advantage?

    In addition to these medical doubts, I have grave political concerns regarding compulsory vaccination laws. Do we really want to withhold core government services, such as public education, based on a family’s compliance with compulsory medical procedures?

    What would be next? What are the political implications of this slippery slope?

    This is absolutely not the kind of society I wish to create!

    The vaccination issue is a complex one that cannot be answered by a one-size-fits-all government mandate.

    It is, in my opinion, unconscionable for the state to force these intrusive interventions on all families.”

    Dr. Howard W. Morningstar, M.D.

    • How is ‘perhaps’ a cogent argument?

      ANd using Darwinism shows us your true beliefs. Social Darwinism is the belief that we should support and push the ‘survival of the fittest’. Let vaccine preventable illnesses proliferate, so those with weak immune systems will die and make the future generations a hardier breed, with those genes eliminated from the gene pool.
      If that is the position of the anti-vaxxers, let them say it. Because it was the position of some prominent (in)famous people in our history.

      • Do you really think that the immorally-driven human science is more compassionate & humane than Divine “science” – the laws of nature? In tachanun – Dovid haMelech reminds us all that we’d all MUCH rather “fall” through Hashm’s Hands than through the achzarius of man.

        Please give a listen or read the transcript of the deposition of chief vaccinologist, the world over – Dr. Stanley Plotkin, who is a self-proclaimed atheist who has zero value for the sacred Divinity of human life. Vaccines are produced with and on live aborted human baby tissue of babies intentionally conceived for this diabolical purpose. Plotkin further has no qualms for testing the filthy toxin filled concoctions on people he considered useless – orphans and children with lower IQ than him – though they all certainly had higher EQ (measure of G-d fearing maturity).

        The lawyer who interrogated him is a tzaddik & hero!!!

  23. I’m very pleased to be able to read these questions and responses. Some of the questions are a little silly and patronizing, but I appreciate there being a discussion. Are we not meant to always be learning and questioning?

    This has given me a lot to think about. I have most certainly always wondered about certain things — such as when a child is born, beautiful and perfect, what makes us think that we should immediately seek to improve upon that child’s immune system? Hepatitis B is given on the first day of birth and if the mother doesn’t have it to pass down, then the other means of transmission are irrelevant for a newborn. Do we imagine that we can improve upon that baby….and why? Was the job of his/her creation left half done?

  24. Vaccinator: You are right on target and I’m sorry that you have decided not to comment on the GL site anymore because we need more like you to counter these cultist anti-vaxxer missionaries. You’re also right that it has now become clear why the GL site was started even though there are several excellent frum sites already – yep, it’s a not-so-subtle anti-vaxxer site, obviously funded by the anti-vaxxers. As shown in the past, these people don’t understand a thing about science so they need to find forums to try to missionize. But you’re right that you can’t get anywhere arguing with people who don’t understand the scientific method and just parrot back anything they hear. The good news is that B”H, NY state has done the right thing by eliminating the religious exemption – we know that there is NOTHING in yiddishkeit that says that vaccination is anything but the right thing to do because we have a chiyyuv to take care of ourselves and vaccination is the only way to prevent fatal diseases like measles, pertussis, diphtheria, polio, and Hib. NJ will soon follow BE”H. Those moves, together with mandatory enforcement of school and yeshiva non-admission for the unvaccinated and hopefully enforced shul and camp eviction for the unvaccinated will finally get this terrible anti-vaccine plague under enforced control. Too bad that our community, which is supposed to be intelligent, lags so far behind the vast majority of the country – and the civilized world – in doing the right thing and vaccinating their children. B”H, we have these vaccines and it’s a tremendous tribute to the efforts over the past century of scientists, researchers, pharmaceutical companies, and terrific American high-science organizations like the CDC, AAP, AAFP, AMA, FDA who help keep our population healthy. Measles continues to KILL people at an alarming rate – 110,000 people KILLED BY MEASLES in 2017 alone!! Obviously, there’s no excuse in the world not to vaccinate against measles and anyone who doesn’t do so is chayyav b’nafsho. Over 90% of Rabbonim support vaccination (and Yiddishkeit REQUIRES us to follow the majority), nearly 100% of doctors recommend vaccinations, and ALL of the scientific organizations we rely upon for all of our medical guidelines mandate vaccination. It’s sad that our community has to be forced to comply with good common sense, critical medical mandates, but, if forcing is what it takes to overcome the anti-vaxxer religion, and keep our frum population healthy, then so be it! It will also finally help control the worst chillul Hashem in modern times that has been perpetrated by the anti-vaxxer religion. B’H, we’re finally getting there!

    • to SomeoneWhoDoesknowScience – there’s a chazal that expresses a universal truth that advises “b’derech she’adam rotzeh leilech, bo molichin ossoh”. Looking through history till today, the person who maintains humility & curiosity to explore & learn Hashm’s world is granted tremendous insights to see how this chazal plays out in humanity. We create our own lives & our world. Every human being has a conscience and knows precisely what’s emes and what’s sheker in their core. The issue is the ratzon – how much & how strong is the will to embrace emes vs the strength of the early unchallenged childhood programming, the fears, &/or the n’gee’os that pull you to embrace sheker. It’s not my thing to take apart comments that are, sadly, riddled with internalized cultural propaganda, k’FEAR’ah, science-fiction, and mostly just very poor quality vibrational frequencies. I can just imagine what my fellow maaminim brothers & sisters are thinking as they read your comment…we REALLY MUST daven for these people who have drunk the koolaid and don’t have a havvameena of what they’re saying that will destroy their own freedom, never mind everyone else’s! You and the too many same-minded disenfranchised Yidden naively believe that the govt is removing freedoms and rights for YOUR benefit…reminds me of the psychological shtick done to the Yidden to get them to comply to their own “final solution”….how true that those who don’t learn from history are condemned to repeat it. There is a universal feeling in the world, confirmed by authentic gedolei Yisrael that we are entering a very close stage towards geulah where the “greys” in our life are dissipating and there’s only black or white. The vaccine issue has been completely exposed to be as black as possible. Anyway you slice the vaccine issue, no matter how many “doctors” or “rabbanim” put split hooves on this chazir- will not make it kosher. You have a choice – run away, though you can never hide from the truth, OR – take responsibility for your ability to express yourself – check it out with those on the emes side of this…because if your are wrong – you are just as culpable as the BIG perpetrators in this hoax. Like I said – we are ALL in the same boat – if you drill a hole under your seat with vaccines thinking wrongly that you are doing good – but it’s not – you are potentially harming us all – May the RBShO continue to shield & protect those who courageously go out and educate to empower parents to make Torah-true choices. There is NO fence to sit on – it is obvious beyond a shadow of a doubt – the vaccine agenda is and always has been designed according to sheker scientific principles ONLY to challenge our Emunah & bitachon in the Master Healer. Anyone who disagrees with this assessment – you are invited to a discussion using the 7 habits of highly effective people…study those first, & THEN we’ll talk….there hasn’t been 1 person who holds a strong dogmatic belief in vaccines & their vaccine-indoctrinated doctor of the many I’ve attempted to have a conversation with who will have an open & friendly conversation with me, or anyone else who’s educated…that’s why they’re “kicked out” so that others don’t get wind of the truth or would want the same punishment- something reminiscent of the inquisition…no?

    • SomeoneWhoDoesKnowScience- you sound a lot like our ex-pediatrician. If that is you – I find it ironic that your initials are S.S. & when that day that you are dreading comes to pass, just like those S.S. doctors’ lame excuse “we were following orders” did nothing for them, it will do little for you. Amazing how you’ve made yourself an authority on that horrific category of diabolical vaccine sickness – PANDAS. Of course, in the reductionist & warped thinking of how to deal with this life-altering malady – vaccines can NEVER be considered as a trigger. So – when my friend mentioned to you that her child’s PANDAS symptoms began soon after a vaccine- you said firmly, and rather nastily “get that OUT of your head”! Rather than seeking established biomedical tried & true methods of healing these children – you further damage their health by prescribing microbiome demolishing antibiotics as well as liver destroying antidepressants for good measure. Wish you’d try all this stuff on yourself first – the vaccines, antibiotics, antidepressants- then let’s see if you don’t commit suicide like r”l hundreds of precious Jewish children & adults do every year. If you are a parent who uses Dr S.S. or any of her colleagues (the majority of doctors) – try try try to open your eyes and wake up! The “majority” of doctors’ patients have rarely seen a vibrantly healthy day since they can ever remember. They know so little about health and RUN for rescue to their doctors. The “minority” of doctors who practice conscious medicine in which the doctor is faithfully committed to the optimal health of their patients and truly “first do NO harm” – encourage educated parents & children on all health topics. The doctors are thrilled to see their HEALTHY patients once s year for a visit. These doctors are truly G-d fearing and never profit off sick children. They’d always rather empower parents and children to initiate self healing without pharmaceuticals or unnecessary procedures. As the people get educated about health – doctors like Dr S.S. will BEH become obsolete and may we witness a tremendous kiddush shem Shamayim with Divine healing for all. There’s lots of online guidance about health & vaccines – Weston A Price Foundation, wellness Mama are 2 great ones.

      I really feel bad for you, Dr. S.S., and all your still vaccinating (without genuine informed consent with the right to refuse) doctors – especially those of you giving gardisil vaccines…you make “Dr. M” proud. I feel worse for you if you don’t stop, take a look in the mirror, have a heart-to-heart, bite the bullet and admit your crimes to the generations you’ve damaged. That will lead to a cascade of healing miracles, teshuva, and geulah – for sure! But you have to do the difficult…grow up and do it – do you really have a choice? The truth is out. We will make sure that BEH it becomes universally accepted – haShomer Emes l’Olam will make sure of it!

    • Dear SomeoneWhoDoesKnowScience. Please show your knowledge of science by actually rebutting the information given instead of attacking the writers and the host. Maybe you are just a 18 year old bochur sitting in a dormitory bored with a smartphone

    • I am disgusted and nauseated by the apparent baseless hatred in some of these comments. May Hashem have mercy on us all and guide us to ahavas chinom. How can people think they are so right when their very approach to their fellow Jew is so wrong. Big picture guys, Big picture!

    • For anyone who can fathom the value of just 1 human life – how brilliant the creators are of http://rodefshalom613.org/ !!!

      What zechusim they are banking – for saving lives, educating & empowering with the FACTS, and aiming towards repairing the huge rifts created by infantile behavior exhibited by emotionally unintelligent “leaders” who influenced their audiences to shun, hate, ostracize, disrespect, & HURT fellow Jews for not injecting filth into their children.

      If you are reading this and the only thing you have to “gain” by being a “proud vaccinator” is social approval (there are NO health benefits to this ____, ONLY detriments) – get ready for when “all vaccine truth breaks loose”!!! You may easily be shocked into a nervous breakdown or chalilah even death r”l to finally realize how you’ve been so betrayed by those you trusted to guide you.

      Please REMEMBER that there’s a REAL entity called teshuva – and with the proper guidance – your families can genuinely heal- a premise nonexistent by your vaccinating doctors who are so breathtakingly ignorant on any health topic.

      Ignorance & arrogance go hand in hand as I see from my experiences attempting to communicate with rabbanim & doctors. How is it that so many “frum” Jews can still think of a person who reveals savage middos – a gadol. Pretty savage to call upstanding Jews who are maaminim “ mechalilei Hashm” on the Internet, to boot!

      “Correlation is not causation” is another way to say (when it suits the criminals) that nature is chaotic and there’s no rhyme or reason for anything – especially cancer & autism – which is another way of saying that no one should even think of actually healing which is happening ALL the time. No, the best you can all do is survive for a bit while drugs and surgery extend your lives. The entire system is built on k’FEAR’ah!!!

      Our smartest men & women went to medical school completely ignorant about health and came out dangerously even more so! Yet most people are sooo busy running around like headless chickens that they don’t perceive that their doctors and their doctor-supported rabbis give medical & health advice without knowing anything!

      We don’t live in the dark ages – all the info you want is within your reach – if you want good health for your families – so ASK people who stopped or never vaccinated and lead vibrant healthy lives using good nutrition and sensible lifestyle measures.

      Your pediatricians, rabbis, and other machers will not back down on their vaccine tyranny – though the WHO/UN/GAVI openly admit that vaccines are designed to wreak health havoc on the world population, which it most certainly & undeniably IS doing!

      Only those who refuse to recognize psychopathic tendencies in world leaders all the way from Nimrod to the present day dictators can call this fact “conspiracy theory” – a term propagated by the conspirators themselves as they did with the term “antivax”. It’s an old story – have the people hate and harm each other- what fun! While the psychopaths sit back and heckle with glee.

      Jews destroying Jews – I’m sure Bill Gates is producing a movie and writing his book as I type.

      Can we all please look ahead and see how Hashm will bless us all if we just forget about vaccines? It’s time to reject them for good, make up, and heal – that’s our ticket to geulah – trust Hashm & love each other unconditionally…is it really so hard? We can avoid more inevitable tzaros like the recent drowning of a father of 6 if we would all just “drown” our egos and proactively call for achdus – k’ish echad b’leiv ECHAD”!!! Please…

  25. “If you choose to comment be respectful”
    Aj Ba and Aliza, did you not see that directive? Why is there so much hate running through your comments? Admonishing others for not liking you doesn’t lend a license for such a hateful tone. Also, GL has done a great job thus far in respecting the competing frum sites. Better than those sites have done. Why ruin it with immature name-calling? If you have a coherent comment to write, please write it in a respectful manner and stick to the relevant facts or opinions. This goes for both sides of this (or any) debate.
    Thank you. In the zchus of trying to stay beshalom may we soon merit the geula.

    • Which comment of mine do you object to? I was pointing out a nastiness on part of an earlier commentor who was sarcastic and passively aggressive. Can you please clarify?

      Thanks,

      • Here’s a sampling:
        “If not, please keep your comments to the Goyish World News website, the Lakewood Stoops to New Lows, and The Situation Room Blog.”
        “Go Back to Yeshiva and start learning what it means to be a Yid. And please, stop embarrassing yourself.”
        Yes, the comment you were replying to was not very smart, to say the least, but that doesn’t defend your tone or irrelevant attacks on other news sites.

        • Texas Totty – you may be right. There’s sometimes a vague line between political correctness, which is sheker, and calling a spade a spade which may be emes, but not always the most productive way to go. It’s really hard on the yet minority of us who have a very full picture of the darkness of the vaccine agenda and it’s striking correlation & CAUSATION of ALL the horrific tzaros in our communities.

          We have tried time and again to sit down with influential people in our communities to calmly discuss and prove the nefarious nature of vaccines and the pharmaceutical/medical model of “health” in all our stages of life from before birth. We have sadly found time and again a stubborn unwillingness on the part of doctors & on the part of rabbanim to listen with compassion.

          BH – we are successfully shifting the paradigm as we educate mothers about true health! Check out the many doctors who have rejected pharma & its sheker – functionalforum.com

  26. I am glad to see that a more balanced view has been given on this issue. Many media accounts miss the bigger picture: too many damn vaccines on the damn schedule AND the coordinated effort of public health officials and pharma to remove voluntary choice.

    All of this creates increased risk for children, and, with the wave of vaccine injury stories, is responsible for the increased sentiment against vaccinations.

    It’s time for something new. Health officials need to start listening to American citizens and defending their voices instead of taking them away.

  27. Thank you for listening to both sides of a topic. The pro-vaccine side has plenty of voices and dollars to have theirs heard but are short on science and facts. You cannot demonize people that choose not to vaccinate their children for a myriad of reasons without listening to their story. They have spend monumental amounts of time researching their choice and are the most educated parents in existence. Thank you for giving those families which make that choice a chance to explain why.

  28. Thank you for allowing the point of view from the other side. Ex-vaxxer and Vaccine-risk Informed is more accurate and less divisive, in my opinion. Jews (and non-Jews) are being pitted against each other to create a division and discord when the discussion should focus on the efficacy and safety, bodily autonomy, medical and religious freedom. Instead of hatred and hateful, aggressive words – curiosity.
    “Why do i feel insecure about the efficacy?”
    “Why is the other side not as scared as me?”
    “Is the information being shared not worthy of my time? Why?”

  29. Medical freedom is fundamental. To lose the right to choose what goes into one’s body and the bodies of our children is to march toward totalitarianism.

    • Perhaps it is fundamental to non-Jewish values. But the Torah does not consider it a value and the rights you claim you are losing, were never yours in the first place.

  30. Shalom from Israel. A friend here told me about this posting and I felt that I had to read it and then comment. I am a senior citizen who has four grown children. They were all vaccinated at the right time but then that was in the 60s. Times and vaccines were much different then. Recently with all the commotion regarding measles and the fact that my health fund continues to tell me to get a flu shot, I decided that it was time to do my own research on these subjects. What I have learned has left me questioning almost everything we have been told over the years about the safety of vaccines.

    A few examples. Here in Israel 8000 new born infants were vaccine damaged when before they were 12 hours old they were given a vaccine against Hepatitis B which many people know can be a sexually or a tainted blood transmitted disease. But if the pregnant mother has been tested and is not infected with it, why should a new born be subjected to the vaccine when their own system has not matured enough to withstand the shock? Why is it that we don’t do a Brit Milah before an infant is eight days old? Doctors who have investigated bodily functions have reported that it takes eight days before the infant’s system is sufficiently engaged to be able to tolerate the surgery. Thank you HaShem.

    Now they are reporting that there are problems with a vaccine called Guardasil which they are giving to both boys and girls even before they are teens. Why? Reports are that many young people have been injured or have even died after this vaccine.

    And so many of the things that were reported by the panel in their frank answers are things that I’ve only been finding out recently. No I will not have a shingles vaccine. Causes more problems than it solves. And of course you reported that over Four Billion Dollars has been paid out in the US alone to families who have been able to prove that their children were vaccine injured.

    I have two very good friends who are also seniors. Both of them told me recently that they were sick and on a wide variety of antibiotics all winter. Both of them have been getting regular flu shots which I have read could actually cause problems with the immune systems. One friend recently had a thorough and complete blood test. She is now having transfusions to build her blood back up. I suggested to my second friend that she also ask for the same blood tests to see if she might have the same problem. Could this have been caused by a flu vaccine?

    If the CDC is so good and honest, then why are they allowing their research doctors to hide results of their testing? And why was the head of CDC recently given a very high position at Merck and a huge salary and bonus package? And why is it that testing at the FDC in the US is done by bureaucrats who have no medical degrees? They are the ones who give permission to new drugs.

    And why because of the actions of the UN and other organizations that are busy making certain that people in war zones or where there have been weather problems and are having vaccines sent to them, why are the very problems that these vaccines were supposed to prevent re-emerging?
    And why are doctors in Africa reporting that tetanus shots are being used for population control. Tests were done at several independent labs and the findings were all the same. And if the vaccines are so reliable how some more and more often additional vaccines have to be used as boosters?

    So many of the facts that I have encountered in my search for the truth has left me in doubt of the truth behind vaccines. Mostly it seems like a money grab. And the more that I find out the more questions I have. And so it is in light of all these questions I constantly think how important it is for each of us to do our own research and listen to those with whom we might not agree just to be able to hear something to give us as much information as we need in order to make our way through this confusing territory.

    There are many reliable doctors and researchers who have the statistics and information that we need. We must ensure the health of our children and ourselves in order that we not rely on medical treatments for our entire lives.

    It is our health, we are responsible for taking care of it, HaShem has commanded us to do it.

  31. Excellent, intelligent responses that didn’t stoop to name calling like pro-vaccine responses almost always do. Thanks for citing accurate studies and scientific facts that can’t be ignored.
    I’m very concerned about Rabbis who paskin that everyone should be vaccinated without actually looking at the scientific facts carefully. Would any rabbi do such a terrible job of investigating kashrus. Chas V’Shalom! They shouldn’t be advising people or saying it’s halacha to vaccinate without first learning the emes! Read every book, speak to doctors who can tell the truth!

    • Are you making a claim against Rabbonim? Perhaps they hold that they don’t need to do the scientific research?

      I think that the very idea that vaccines is a ‘personal choice’, is derived from Goyishe ideas of individualism and not rooted in Torah. Reb Elyashiv clearly did not believe so, and he held that children could be vaccinated against their parents’ will. A father or mother who takes their children to be vaccinated against the other one’s will is not doing anything wrong. If the spouse demands a divorce because of it, well that is their problem.

      • Einer Aza, you write “I think that the very idea that vaccines is a ‘personal choice’, is derived from Goyishe ideas of individualism and not rooted in Torah.”. Your words stand once again in stark contrast against the many gedolei Yisroel mentioned above. You have stated your personal opinion. Much like you write in your later comments you are an anonymous person on the internet and a sound person would rather follow the above listed gedolei Yisroel than your anonymous opinion. You have also stated that you have not done the research, so on what do you base your opinions? In regards to Rav Eliyashiv’s psak the panelists clearly wrote that in the handwritten teshuva Rav Eliyashiv writes his psak is based solely on the facts he was given and those facts were misconstrued.

        • You seem to lack some reading comprehension. I wonder what that says about your research about vaccines.

          The idea of personal choice is not a Jewish one. Rav Elyashiv was very clear about that, and that is separate to the facts you claim were given to him. If those facts were wrong, it is not the personal choice that changes, but the whole idea of vaccinations.

          I actually asked one of the Gedolei Yisroel. In the presence of a doctor who was gnashing his teeth as I repeated the anti vaxxers claims. And his answer was unequivocal, “we have no way of evaluating all of this research, we do not have the medical background. It is easy for people to misunderstand these statistics, just like people who pick up a sefer can easily misunderstand without the full background and years of learning. That is why all of this layman’s research is worthless. If most doctors say something, even if they are paid for it, we follow them”.

          Editor: The last line was removed. If you need to bash rabbanim there are plenty of other news venues to vent on. GL is proud to be Jewish. We, therefore, do not tolerate LoshanHara. Thanks for your understanding.

          • “Perhaps they hold that they don’t need to do the scientific research?”
            What does that mean? The basis for any psak in halacha, or even on any data-based matter is based on the underlying data. It is actually assur to paskin without hearing both sides. We don’t have any tshuvah from R’ Elyashiv saying that he held of vaccinations, only an oral claim by some, which has been discredited by his family members. We also don’t know, as indicated, what information was given to him, upon which he based the alleged psak.

            As an aside “I think that the very idea that vaccines is a ‘personal choice’, is derived from Goyishe ideas of individualism and not rooted in Torah.” it is the exact opposite. The Torah believes in individualism. The opposite is Communism, as in for the community, which is anti-Torah.

          • Einer aza, you write “just like people who pick up a sefer can easily misunderstand without the full background and years of learning. That is why all of this layman’s research is worthless. If most doctors say something, even if they are paid for it, we follow them”.
            You are correct one needs a rebbe for learning as there is eiyin panim latorah and a Torah shebiksav and shebaal peh and one’s intentions matter as well as well as their midos as chazal say lemismoiylim bah samah demaysah. So one needs a rebbe and mesorah. But a fact is a fact and they are presented above. One does not need a medical degree to understand facts and statistics. And Shochad is shochad the Torah doesn’t say shochad for a doctor is any different because he is a doctor

          • I am very confused by the statement that, “we have no way of evaluating all of this research, we do not have the medical background. It is easy for people to misunderstand these statistics,….
            I understand why medical background may be needed to understand the methods and the medical language of studies, However, statistics have nothing to do with medicine.
            If a statistic says that only 1 in 10,000 people can be damaged by the MMR vs. 1 in 1,000 why do you need medical school to understand this?
            If a study showing that MMR does not cause autism is done by comparing it to other vaccines rather than by comparing it to people without vaccinations – why do you need medical school to understand that this is comparing apples to oranges (maybe all vaccines cause the same level of damage).
            If the fact is that they do not do double blind safety studies and long term studies on vaccines and therefore statements saying that they are safe are meaningless – why do you need medical background to understand this?
            If you want to say that millions of children are fine – that is only acceptable if you actually keep meaningful statistics of how many children got sick after vaccines rather than having doctors unilaterally say its not the vaccine because the CDC says it is safe, and therefore not allowing the statistic to be built. In the absence of real long term safety studies this is not acceptable and you don’t need a medical license to understand that.
            Additionally, some of the sources cited in the answers are from expert immunologists who would understand vaccines better than the average doctor.

  32. I see same two extremes manifested through many comments here:
    1) Anyone with an opinion opposing yours, is presumed to be a part of some evil monolithic entity, where everyone shares each other’s folly.
    2) Limited facts and events are equated with general phenomena.
    Thus
    If some doctors promote vaccines it MUST be because they sold their soul for money.
    If some others don’t, it MUST be they are profiteering of alternative meds.
    If GL opens a forum this must be a sole reason for its creation(that’s despite them consistently piling on antis until now).
    If some studies were fudged, that MUST be a how all scientific establishment operates.
    If some pharma misled the public, that MUST indicate that every company does.
    If some people suffered adverse reactions to vaccines, that MUST mean that everyone is being damaged.
    If public health metrics have deteriorated that MUST mean that it’s caused by increase in vaccines.
    If one vaccine was found unsafe, MUST be all of them are.
    If some are found ineffective, MUST be all of them are.
    If some antis firebrands or wackos stage a publicity stunt, that MUST be that every cautious parent approves their sensational methods.
    None of those conclusions are true or productive. I find myself in an interesting place where I know and discussed this issue with prominent people on both sides(including a PhD close relative working for NIH which is tasked with formulating govt policy on vaccines).
    I can tell you that ALL oft-maligned doctors or leading Rabbonim in our community on BOTH side of the debate, advocate their positions out of altruism and care for others.
    Furthermore overwhelming majority of the rank and file scientists and government workers are likewise endeavoring to further public health.
    The bottom line is that this is a very complex topic with many conflicting values: public vs private, government control vs individual freedom, prevention vs unnecessary invasion. There are also different perspectives: training in scientific research methodology, personal adverse experiences, communal responsibility, interpretation of the Torah mandate. Who among general public is able to take in all those values, perspectives and sift through reams of information to arrive at correct conclusion? Those tensions make people emotional, so people tend to demonize the opponent.
    Yes there are bad apples, but don’t mislead yourself by stereotyping the rest of the playing field on their account. The dynamic of conspiracy theory does exactly that: focus on narrow sample of events to push some emotional agenda. Extreme care must be taken to understand everything in its proper individual and general context.
    Please stop grouping people in 2 camps and please stop impugning on their values. This animosity will not bring you closer to truth or gain you quality adherents. There are as many reasons as there are people. Most of us are just trying to navigate through this confusing world.

    • its all perplexing without doing the deep research which has very deep roots. A strong grasp of real history and not just what is written in school textbooks is also essential to get a grasp of what is happening. We are influenced by the culture and those who orchestrate what outcomes they want for people.

      Becoming self-aware through studying multiple brain integration & the works of Drs. Bruce Lipton & Joe Dispenza will open your eyes to the emes in our life challenges.

  33. Thanks for a most refreshingly honest discussion here. The “powers that be” are trying to divide and conquer us and by opening this topic up for genuine discussion there is true hope that this will not be the case.

    Brene Brown, PhD LMSW, wrote in her book, Rising Strong, “As doctoral students, we were often forced to take sides. Our research professors trained us to chose evidence over experience, science over art, and data over story. Ironically, at the exact same time, our non-research professors were teaching us that social work scholars should be wary of false dichotomies – those “either you’re this or you’re that” formulations. In fact, we learned that when faced with either-or dilemmas, the first question we should ask is, “Who benefits by forcing people to choose?”

    I think this is very instructive for our discussion since we are being forced to take “either-or” sides as well – either you get vaccinated and you’re safe or you’re a walking disease vector. This is even pitting family members against each other. (What is not mentioned in the media and by “authoritative” figures and agencies is the rate of primary and secondary vaccine failure and all the incidences of measles, mumps, whooping cough in highly vaccinated populations. Individuals who experience vaccine failure do contract and transmit the disease, but since many are asymptomatic (sub-clinically) ill, they become silent, unrecognized transmitters and all the blame is laid on those who have not vaccinated who are clinically ill. It is also not made public that many of the measles cases are also often recently vaccinated people who’ve come down with a measles rash from the vaccine. I’m happy to share links – ask GL to pass on the request to me.)

    The question of “Who benefits” is very relevant here. We are talking about an industry that has no legal liability for harm from their products and the many other agencies, organizations, and individuals who profit also. And let’s not forget that in the US many doctors get rewarded or penalized by the insurance companies who pay them according to the level of vaccinated children in their practices.

    There is also the very relevant question of science or lived experience (data over story). While science can help to inform, people’s lived experiences with vaccines must not be ignored or we will never get to the truth. Unfortunately, the mantra that vaccines are safe and effective and that perceived vaccine reactions are coincidental only makes the situation worse. Universally safe and effective is a lie when we know that the Supreme Court designated vaccines as “unavoidably unsafe” and every perceived reaction can’t be coincidental. Telling parents they don’t know what they’re talking about is a disservice to everyone and morally indefensible.

    That’s why we need this conversation.

  34. Aliza: since 90% of what you’re saying is apikorsis (eg, don’t listen to our Rabbonim), your posts aren’t worth a thing. They can be ignored.

    • SomeoneWhoDoesKnowScience, Please do share with us some of your science instead of character assassinations. We are waiting several days already for you to debate on substance. If you do no feel Aliza is worthy to debate, there is plenty here both in the body of the story and other comments you can focus us to share with us your breadth of knowledge.

    • SomeoneWhoKnowsScientism- funny how easy it was for you to ignore my comments- but that’s not the issue, it’s about your visceral fear that the many other readers shouldn’t read my comments because the truth may continue to resonate with more and more and more and more and more as truth eventually gets to the top. Ad they say: truth comes in 3 phases, first it’s ridiculed, then it’s violently opposed, then it’s accepted as self-evident! That’ll BEH be our final geulah!!!

  35. I would like to explain where the 1 in a million vaccine injury rate comes from, it is often mentioned. It is from VICP (Vaccine Injury Compensation Program) which on average gave an award of 1 dose per million doses distributed. Everybody agrees, ref below.

    What isn’t being said is that each child got 50 DOSES, (on average during that 2006-2017 period, the MMR counts as 3 doses and is given twice = 6 doses). Therefore, 1 million doses covered 20,000 children and means that 1 in 20,000 children suffered a severe adverse reaction, not 1 in a million.

    If people want to take that risk fine, but doctors would certainly not be so quick to recommend that level of risk level as they would a 1 in a million risk, especially onto healthy children. Even if doctors did recommend it, parents should still have the right to refuse and not suffer repercussions.

    ref:https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html
    Also note that today children get 72 doses by the time they are 18

  36. Someonewhodoesknowscientism- since you assert that you understand what apikorsus is – perhaps you can list the 90% of my comments that you claim to be apikorsus?

    You would really be doing us all a great chessed by sharing your deep wisdom on genuine emunah & bitachon in the Borei Olam! I’m willing to learn from everyone. I’ve also learned from early on in my life that authentically G-d fearing rabbonim are REALLY careful with respecting other people – as emphasized in the Igerres haRamban . True rabbinic leaders, like my holy Rav & his Rebbitzin would never even dream of screaming at me and call me a “malshin & a baschmutzer” because I wanted to share my knowledge on the vaccine agenda as did a rav I met with last year.

    This same very “prominent” rabbi also told a young father that he is mechuyav to vaccinate his children or he is a rotzeiach and if his wife disagrees – this is grounds for a get and he may vaccinate them behind her back.

    Such a story CANNOT be made up and I wouldn’t even believe it except that I was just treated by him with such shocking disrespect. The young man’s wife called me crying about what this rav said to him a short time later.

    Boruch Hashm – this couple called my ehrliche Rav who set them straight about doctors having permission to heal but are forbidden to “prevent” disease with toxic substances as all vaccines are confirmed to contain.

    Please look up Vaccinegate and learn about the analysis of vaccines injected into delicate newborns by the Corvelva group of independent Italian scientists…that important investigation should even make your head spin – if you really care & if you are a Yorei Shamayim – you would NOT want to risk children’s brain function & health, now – would you???

  37. However, these Rabbonim refuse to verify how much research the doctors have done on this topic, or they think the doctors have so much experience that they don’t need to research.

    The Rabbonim pasened that they should refuse to verify how much research ……..

    What does that tell you about the Rabbonim’s opinion of your research?

    Unless this was a backhanded way of attacking Rabbonim for refusing to verify research. In which case, you have left it as a fight between yourselves and Rabbonim. I prefer to take halacha from Rabbonim rather than anonymous people on the internet, with much erroneous information. (I did not research it sufficiently, as I do not have years to spend in college and medical school. But I have read clear refutations of the hygiene arguments on polio, as well as on the autism/vaccine links. I do know of non-vaccinated children that are autistic, but that would not constitute proof either, as I am not an expert)

    And it is a chutzpa to include a psak from Rabbi Dunner as a psak from Reb Chaim Kaniyevsky. Reb Chaim has clearly told schools to refuse children for not vaccinating, and the video is available. IDK what Rabbi Dunner thinks or heard, but Reb Chaim’s opinion is the one that counts.

    • Einer Aza, you wrote “I prefer to take halacha from Rabbonim rather than anonymous people on the internet” however this is not anonymous people vs halachah. They have clearly stated many gedolim whom which they are following. Are you claiming those gedolim are going against halachah ch”v. And as far as the psak of Rav Chaim in the video of which you speak that was not a psak for a klal it was the psak for a specific menahel who claimed that the health department and others are causing tremendous pressure on him and does he personally for his mossad which he owns have a right to send away children not vaccinated. This was a request for him and his mossad. Rav Chaim acquiesced to his request. This was NOT a psak for a rabbim. Rabbi Donner on the other hand quotes Rav Chaim who he says gave him a psak for all mosdosim and a rabbim. You say the psak presented by Rav Chaim is not to be relied upon but rather a video discussion with a menahel. But your claim stands in contrast to three gedolei Yisroel in the above signed letter referencing the psak of Rav Chaim. Do you argue with those three gedolei Yisroel and claim Rav Chaims psak on the video supersedes the psak he gave to Rav Donner??

    • Why do you need to complicate this issue? It’s really very simple and needs little research for the truth. The vaccine agenda is a propaganda game, no studies needed. In my daily avodah to concretize my ahavas Hashm – I think about the welfare of my fellow Jews, so what I learned from brilliant international doctors, namely, to reject vaccines, I’ve shared with, now already, THOUSANDS of mothers – some of whom stand up for the health of their families, and most who have succumbed, r”l, to the fear tactics and cultural conditioning called “group think” or herd mentality.

      The ones who rose to the challenge and courageously protect their children call me regularly to express their deep appreciation as they witness ALL their friends and neighbors, nebach, shlepping their kids from therapist to therapist, doctor to hospital, psychiatrist to rehab, etc. jealously observing how their “health nut, antivaxxer” ex-friend and ex-family has NONE of those problems! Yessir – NONE!!!! But you wouldn’t care to know because that would take COURAGE which is sadly in very short supply in our vaccinated communities…..but healing can and does happen, EVEN from vaccines – but, NEVER from the doctors who push vaccines – they can’t admit that vaccines harmed, so how can they even be concerned about healing from this very procedure that should NEVER have been injected into our precious children in the first place!

      It’s 100% obvious from the majority of comments on this article that the truth is OBVIOUS and has always been. Humans are fickle and are ALL susceptible to be bought. The wealth of Haman & Korach put together has fueled the vaccine industry. Yes – tumahdik dark money which has woven itself into nearly EVERY Institution, Jewish & otherwise. This is our test. We ALL choose. If you do the hard questioning that it takes to grasp truth (a worthwhile reward) – you really will be a winner. We will gladly welcome you to our club that is growing by leaps & bounds!!!

  38. Whether or not a person accepts vaccines or any other medical intervention, is the practice of medical autonomy. Requiring a medical intervention to attend school, or participate in society in any way is coercion. This takes away medical autonomy and informed consent and is illegal. Immune systems are not community property. They belong to the individual. I am not required to donate a kidney, part of my liver, my blood, my plasma or any other part of my body to protect another person from harm. I am not required to do this with my child’s body either, even if it could potentially save their own sibling. Why is my immune system any different? I am the one who assumes all the risk of vaccination and my immune system STILL can not protect another person from infection. If this were the case, the “healthy” population would automatically be “protection” for the immune-compromised and there would be no immune-compromised population. Why are we expecting infants and children to assume the risk of vaccination under the idea that it is their obligation to sacrifice their body for others? When has it even been acceptable to require children to risk their body for others? If an adult knows all the risks and ingredients with vaccination and chooses this for themselves, that is on them. We should not be putting this on children who will live with or even die because of the risk of vaccination.

    Vaccinated, does not equal immune. There is a significant level of primary and secondary vaccine failure that is never monitored. A study by the USAF of over 32000 fully vaccinated recruits found about 20% were not immune to MMR. In a 100% vaccinated population, there is not the 95% immune to meet the herd immunity requirement. The majority of the population is not fully vaccinated according to the current pediatric schedule. Anyone under age 5 has not received both doses of MMR. Anyone over 30 and under 55 would have only been given one dose if any at all. And those over 55 may or may not have natural immunity, but there has been no tracking only assumed immunity because most people had these childhood illnesses and fully recovered producing lifelong immunity. Then we have the percentage of people who are immune-compromised and not vaccinated, those who had their immune system wiped out by chemo and radiation, and the small percentage of people who choose not to vaccinate, selectively vaccinate or stopped vaccinating. There is no way there has ever been 95% herd immunity through vaccination. They are basing the whole idea of community immunity off of a false premise.

    Some questions to ask about vaccines that still have yet to be addressed, why are there no placebo-controlled studies? Why does the CDC consider it unethical to do long term studies on vaccine safety, but not unethical to recommend vaccines without these studies? If vaccines are safe, why did the manufacturers get liability protection under the Children’s National Vaccine Injury Act? Why is the consumer paying for the “privilege” of assuming the risk of injury and death through a tax levied on each vaccine? If vaccines are so safe and injuries and deaths are so rare, why won’t the manufacture stand behind their own product? And furthermore, why should anyone trust a company that rejects the responsibility for providing a safe product?

    Medical ethics dictates that a provider protect medical autonomy, informed consent and this includes the informed refusal of any medical intervention. This comes above whether the provider agrees or disagrees with the patient’s decision. No means no, not let me try to coerce, some go as far as lying and bullying, you into compliance. They need to be able to answer questions about vaccines without misrepresenting the facts. They need to be able to explain the ingredients and risks of those ingredients, not just the perceived benefits. The medical providers’ ethical obligation is to the patient, not the medical institution or the drug manufacturers. Somehow this practice has been lost with vaccination.

    • Bernie Knits – from my vaccine-awareness activism it seems to be an insurmountable challenge to reach the closed minded “majority” with the obvious perversion of basic morality & ethics as you brilliantly & simply pointed out.

      I greatly appreciate your down to earth eloquence describing the slippery slope of evil nonsense going from vaccine coercion, now by “rabbanim” to hearing them in “shiurim” encouraging people to give up their kidneys for people whose kidneys were destroyed my the medical model, especially with vaccines – as they are documented to damage kidneys (among many other ways they damage vaccine-recipient victims).

      Your message has encouraged me to up the ante on my activism, knowing that it’s worth all my efforts to save even 1 life. These efforts include speaking to individuals everywhere and, often being viciously attacked when I just point out the longstanding pHARMa corruption and connect vaccines as a pHARMa product.

      I know that we are a team fighting for true Shalom – which cannot be complete without Emes & Din. They are a trifecta that we know from pirkei avos keep the world existing…it’s up to US, BEH!

      May these 3 weeks until Tisha b’Av miraculously be healing weeks from the devastating stage 5 vaccine/doctor A”Z cancer that has infiltrated our holy camps for far too long!

      Do not fear the truth! It is your best friend! Listen to G-D FEARING MORAL DOCTORS & SCIENTISTS Judy Mikovitz, Stephanie Sennett, Russel Blaylock, Timothy O’Shea, Toni Bark, Larry Palevsky, Kelly Brogan, Sherry Tenpenny, Suzanne Humphries, Rashid Buttar, among MANY MANY others, may Hashm protect them all!

  39. @ vaccinator I challenge you to bring forth all those thousands of studies supporting vaccine safety and efficacy.
    I have already offered thousands of dollars to people that may have them. So far still waiting. Is 100,000 dollars to little to bring just 2 or 3 of the studies i asked for? If they are there, it shouldn’t take more than a few seconds to email them to me. Who makes 100,000 in a few seconds?
    @vaccinator and anyone that dismisses our concerns. Sorry you may have lots of pain and guilt needing to admit to the claims of the anti-vaxxers. Wouldnt that pain intensify when the truth will come out? Who knows how much more damage you may do to patients and your own flesh and blood? Wouldnt you want to at least look into it, so they can be minimized to some extent? What is done is done. But now that people are talking, you wont forgive yourself by continuing when the truth is revealed.

  40. I really appreciate this forum.Thank you GL.This is the first time I heard about GL.And THIS IS THE ONLY FRUM NEWS SITE I WILL USE since the others lost their trust on the vaccine topic a topic i delved into and like anybody who does so with just a little objectivity will see there really aren’t any scientifically accepted studies showing the short / long term safety of of any vaccine including some of the most toxic ingredients.and I never saw any level headed discussion on any frum news site-just a lot of propaganda. So THANK YOU AGAIN GL !! You Earned My Trust!!
    KEEP IT UP!!

  41. This is my first time leaving a comment on this website. I am really fascinating that those who cannot debate, defame. Calling names is the last refuge of non-thinkers. When the other side tries to censor those who oppose their opinion, this means that most likely the other opinion has facts on that side and are afraid for the information to spread out. Someone who was in JDL I can tell you how the other side dreamed of shutting our mouth, all these is very familiar to me. Oh and someone who did study science I can say it as a fact that any mercury inside human is dangerous and I can debate anyone on that topic. And for those individuals who prefer to silence and threaten not to come back here, believe me, this site is much better off without you.

  42. Are you fools going to now have a flat earther tell us why the earth isn’t round, or perhaps a moon-landing denier tell us the US didn’t land astronauts on the moon? No, wait, your utter idiocy regarding vaccines as shown here means you should next let a bunch of neo-nazis tell your readers why the Holocaust was a good thing and why it should be brought back again.

    How sad you give anti-science idiots a debate platform in the middle of horrendous measles outbreak.

    You should be ashamed.

    • Greg, please feel free to debate instead of character assassinate. If you strongly believe the evidence presented is false please expound. As far as your holocaust comparison I myself am a grandchild of holocaust survivors and I take great offense to any comparison from this topic to the greatest atrocity of our times. It is shameful for you to make such comparison but alas you may have been led astray by the likes of AOC and her cohorts.

      • EMES – it’s sad how so many of us are indeed children & grandchildren of survivors and the connection of today’s vaccine agenda to the diabolical medical atrocities done in the camps by many of the same pHARMa companies was and remains suppressed to the public.

        All the details, though, of how Jews & many others were experimented on to perfect the slow-kill of generations (as we see) – are openly described in books and online for those with curiosity and the mental fortitude necessary to accept such despicable betrayal by our “doctors” &
        most rabbanim.

        The barbarism of the vaccine agenda, as well as , MUCH of the sickening medical model is SO far from how we can be living & thriving in a conscious wellness paradigm – that anyone who hasn’t made the metamorphosis to ex-vaxxer yet – should be doing a deep dive into the blatant corruption. Don’t keep your heads in the ground! We will help you! Check out EnrichedParenting.org for support and great health advice sharing. Stay away from pediatricians who seem to specialize in creating immunosuppressed patients. Explain that, will you!

        Time for us to heal through compassionate Divine healing- as Drs Bruce Lipton & Joe Dispenza teach people all around the world. The truth ALWAYS rises to the top….

  43. Greg – it’s a wonder how you feel so safe spouting malicious comments as if you’re gang protected as on the other vax-worshiping sites.

    Funny thing is that, in fact, you are, indeed, safe here on GL where our moral and very smart host has been quite hospitable to the majority of commenters who are G-d fearing, seicheldig people of exemplary character.

    On the other hand, when a vax-rejector expresses truth on some of the pHARMa-bought “Jewish” sites – they, sadly, get “swallowed up alive” with vile & offensive language…from the many who have bought the lies and are suffering with so much sickness & dysfunction.

    Like my principal always said “character above all”! That’s ALWAYS what true achievers have been admired for – their exemplary courageous loyalty to truth, freedom, and the absolute & OPTIMAL well being of fellow humans.

    Every last vax-worshipper that I’ve spoken with about vax – in a calm & respectful way would respond to me either with repulsive words foaming at the mouth OR with a condescending unmoved countenance. Sad to say – they are comfortable behaving that way because their many fans MISTAKENLY continue to refer to these people as “gedolim”. A true gadol treats EVERYONE with respect. A true gadol has an interest in the health of klal Yisrael and if people like us suggest that it’s vaccines – they will leave no stone unturned to get to the bottom of how vaccines are triggering EPIDEMICS of autism, neurological & immunological dysfunction, infertility, mental & emotional disturbances, eating disorders, cancer, etc.

    Greg – you really think a LOVING Creator wants this – or are we just not making sensible choices? There are millions around the world who have none of these problems and are living vibrantly healthy productive long lives. Go check out these communities- the world is much smaller than it’s ever been and we don’t live in the dark ages – find out how they value health. Do you think they’d be stupid enough to inject biologically incompatible filth directly into their blood streams if they already understand how to be healthy? What arrogance & hubris the likes of wealthy thieves, Bill’am Gates and friends to pay off people to force these deadly interventions into humans.

    The vaccine promoters are not your friends, Greg! Listen to the truth tellers like Aaron Russo, Patrick James, Suzanne Humphries, Russell Blaylock, David Ayoub, etc, then listen to the psychopaths like Bill Gates, Paul Offit, Henry Kissinger, Peter Hotez, Richard Pan, Dorit Reiss, Rich Roberts (of Lakewood, etc.

    If your ears can’t detect who speaks truth and who speaks lies – look up some sites on character development and propaganda studies. You’re part of a large segment of society who have not learned self awareness so you don’t know what to believe.

    I know you can heal – blessings…

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