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GL arranged a panel of anti-vaxxers to answer vaccination-related questions.
Part one featured 2 panelists. Part two features one response from 3 panelists.
GreaterLakewood reports extensively on Measles outbreaks, news and other information. In fact, GL posted 30+ measles-related stories in the past 3 months. This is a way to hear their side of the story and ‘put it out there’.
8 questions were presented by GL readers to the panel. The first part was posted a month ago and was viewed over ten thousand times. It can be viewed HERE.
What’s it like knowing that you’re the cause of the rise of Anti-Semitism? We the 97% suffer from antisemitism thanks to the 3% who don’t vaccinate. Does any of the effects on innocent people that you have caused make you think twice about your movement?
Panelist: We all suffer from the rise of anti-Semitism today. The claim that those who choose not to vaccinate are causing anti-Semitism is erroneous as it is under the assumption that vaccines are perfectly safe and effective and that those who avoid them are harming others.
IT IS 100% CLEAR TO ONE WHO CHOOSES NOT TO VACCINATE THAT VACCINES CAUSE HARM. We will explain why below, but we all agree that fear of Anti-Semitism is not a reason to stop doing the right thing. Refusing to shake a woman’s hand at an important event might seem to cause anti-Semitism but the Jew who remains with conviction knows that his actions can only create Kiddush Hashem and will not bring harm to his nation. In any case, this movement is not anymore associated with Jews than non-Jews and is no cause for Anti-Semitism. The Jewish media and others are the ones pointing fingers and putting us in a bad light. They are kindling the fire of Sinaah, Machlokes, and Pirud.
The vaccine risk awareness movement is very misunderstood amongst the public, and one who is genuinely concerned about anti-Semitism should be equally as curious to understand the reasoning behind such seemingly irresponsible behavior. We do not attempt to convince you or to persuade you in any way, rather we ask that you put your assumptions on hold for just a few minutes and hear where we are coming from. At the very least we hope to foster some more understanding between the two sides and mitigate machlokes and misunderstanding as much as possible.
Do you remember the polio epidemic? Do you know why these days polio is extinct in the United States? Because of vaccinations. Why don’t you learn from history?
Panelist: The mortality rates from diseases such as, diphtheria, polio, and measles, declined by 95-98% prior to the introduction of these vaccines. See here at length.
Also, many once-deadly diseases such as cholera, typhoid, typhus, tuberculosis, and scarlet fever, declined and disappeared AT THE SAME RATE AND DURING THE EXACT SAME TIME PERIOD AS THE OTHER DISEASES, BUT WITHOUT ANY VACCINE. Therefore, the conclusion that mortality rates declined solely because of a vaccine is questionable, at best. See here at length.
Regarding polio, pertussis (whooping cough), and influenza, the vaccines only protect the one who received them from severe symptoms of these diseases, but not from contracting the diseases and transmitting them to others. (Therefore, someone who does take the vaccine is just as likely to spread these diseases as someone who does not.) In fact, someone vaccinated is more likely to spread disease, as the vaccinated could have an asymptomatic infection, and will not take the necessary precautions to avoid public places while infected. See here point number 4 on the downloadable pdf and sources.
If we were convinced of the efficacy and safety of a vaccine against a deadly global epidemic, we would surely vaccinate against it.
So many Gedolim came out against it. R’ Moshe Sternbach, R Elyashiv and many others. If you do it for religious reasons, who is your leading Posek?
Panelist: It is important to realize that most of the rabbanim paskening that you must vaccinate have admitted that they have NOT researched both sides of the sugya. Their psakim are given based on numbers and statistics and information only from one side of the debate and do not consider the claims of many, albeit a minority, of doctors and scientists who claim otherwise.
The Rabbonim feel this topic is a one-way street that doesn’t need investigation, because they’re relying heavily on the opinion of local doctors whom they trust implicitly. However, these Rabbonim refuse to verify how much research the doctors have done on this topic, or they think the doctors have so much experience that they don’t need to research. Many Rabbonim suffice to pasken that this is a sofeik and we follow the rules of majority. One who researches this topic with the troves of available information learns that there is no sofeik and therefore no basis to pasken with halachic rules applicable in the place of a sofeik.
Below is just a tiny sampling of professionals speaking out against vaccines.
A. Dr. Luc Montagnier is a French virologist and Nobel laureate who discovered HIV and proved that it causes AIDS. Dr. Montagnier has won dozens of prestigious awards and is a member of both The Academy of Sciences and Academy of Medicine. He, along with oncology professor Dr. Henri Joyeux, alerted the world to the dangers of vaccination, explaining that the aluminum adjuvants being used in them are toxic and cause neurological harm and many forms of cancer.
B. Dr. Yehuda Schoenfeld, the world’s foremost authority on autoimmunity, is a co-author of the text book Vaccines and Autoimmunity, a book in which he explores the role of adjuvants- specifically aluminum in vaccines- and how they can induce diverse autoimmune clinical manifestations in genetically prone individuals.
C. Dr. Tetyana Obukhanych Ph.D. is a top immunologist and author of the book Vaccine Illusion: How Vaccination Compromises Our Natural Immunity and What We Can Do to Regain Our Health. She clarifies that artificial manipulation of the immune system through vaccination makes children more susceptible to suffer and die from other diseases. The artificial disease process triggered by vaccination weakens and compromises a child’s immune system so that even if children are protected temporarily from the “target” disease of the vaccine, they are more vulnerable to getting sick and dying from any other diseases in their environment. Therefore, vaccines are causing more harm than good in their role of “disease prevention”.
D. Dr. Teresa Deisher is a top stem cell researcher. Through her studies and lab work with stem cells and human DNA, she has proven that DNA fragments from the aborted fetal cell lines in live virus vaccines, such as MMR and Varicella, can cause autoimmune disease, autism, and cancer. Stem cells, in particular, she explains, have a tendency to readily absorb tiny DNA fragments from the vaccine, as it is difficult for the cell to differentiate those fragments from its own DNA. Once inside the cell, the DNA fragments have the ability to insert themselves in to the host’s DNA and cause them to mutate, through a process called insertional mutagenesis. These mutations are the cause of many disorders such as cancer, autoimmune disease, and autism.
E. Dr. Christopher Exley is a fellow of the Royal Society of Biology, and is a professor of bioinorganic chemistry at Keele University. Dr. Exley has been studying aluminum for the past thirty-five years, and he has recently been studying the brains of autistic children. His studies reveal startling information. Of the one hundred brains he has in his database, the children with autism have by far the most aluminum in their brain tissue, even exceeding those with Alzheimer’s disease. More shocking to Dr. Exley was his discovery of the location of the aluminum in the brain. The aluminum was found specifically in the immune cells in the brain, as they had transported it there from the injection site of vaccination; thus, Dr Exley has proven how aluminum adjuvants are implicated in causing autism.
F. Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, as mentioned earlier, is a top neurologist and expert on autism. Dr. Zimmerman was the former Director of Medical Research at the prestigious Kennedy Krieger Institute at John Hopkins University. He has proven that vaccines can cause autism in children with an underlying mitochondrial disorder. These children are lacking in cellular energy as a result of their mitochondrial dysfunction, and they, therefore, do not have enough energy to expel the toxins after vaccination. This overload of toxins can lead to brain inflammation, or autism.
G. Dr. Boyd Haley, Ph.D. is Emeritus Professor of Chemistry and Biochemistry at the Marky Cancer Center, University of Kentucky. His extensive work with mercury has enabled him to alert the public to the extreme toxicity of mercury, EVEN IN EXCEEDINGLY SMALL AMOUNTS. He also expounds on the dangers of the synergistic effects of aluminum and antibiotics in vaccines in the presence of mercury. Mercury is far more toxic to the nerves in the presence of aluminum. Antibiotics prevents the body from excreting mercury, and it dramatically enhances the toxicity of thimerosal, a mercury compound, to neurons in culture.
H. Dr. Christopher Shaw, professor of the Department of Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences at the University of British Columbia, became the first scientist ever to test the aluminum used in vaccines in a biological setting, in a study published in 2009. He and his colleagues injected mice with the human dose- equivalent of aluminum, mimicking the vaccine schedule. Rapidly, these mice began to display behavioral deficits of motor function, as well as cognitive deficits. Upon dissecting these mice, Dr. Shaw found massive damage to motor neurons. Dr. Shaw then went on to publish a paper in which he discussed how aluminum was never tested for safety in the pediatric population, and that his experimental research clearly shows that “aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk of autoimmunity, long- term brain inflammation, and associated neurological complications, and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health effects.”
The following Roshei Yeshiva and Gedolim have been cited saying that it is a parent’s right to decide whether or not to vaccinate their children and that schools may not exclude children who are unvaccinated:
- Rav Chaim Kanievsky (see letter below)
- Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky
- Rav Aryeh Malkiel Kotler,
- Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel
- Rav Mattisyahu Salamon
- Rav Laizer Ginsberg
See this letter stating it would be a Bizayon Hatorah and a Chillul Hashem for schools to not admit non-vaccinated children. If you take a closer look at R’ Moshe Sternbuch’s psak, he says that one cannot rely on rov rofim (majority
of doctors) in a case where the miut rofim (minority) claim that something is pikuach nefesh. Accordingly, in a time where there is NO outbreak, then NOT vaccinating is not pikuach nefesh, and based on that, vaccines should be assur. He says that in a time of outbreak, BASED ON THE STATISTICS HE WAS SHOWN which is 1 in 1,000 deaths, one would be mechayev to vaccinate. The CDC website itself clarifies that prior to the vaccine, about 400 people out of approximately 4 million cases died from the measles. This translates into a death rate of 1 in 10,000 cases, or about 2 per million of the population at large. This would obviously result in an entirely different psak.
Rav Sternbuch also based his psak on the assertion of doctors that vaccines don’t cause any harm whatsoever. This is patently false. The government itself admits that there is vaccine damage and therefore instituted a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP). This program has, to date, paid out over 4 billion dollars to compensate vaccine damage to those who have medically proven, in court, that their children have been damaged by vaccines. Those winning compensation in court are but a fraction of the total who sue the government, yet due to very strict legal criteria, many are unable to win, and many others don’t attempt to sue.
Regarding Rav Eliyashiv, his psak is only as per the facts presented. To rely on the Psak of R’ Eliyashiv, one would need to know what set of facts were presented to him. A letter from R’ Morgenstern who presented this shailah to R’ Elyashiv reveals his understanding about the measles virus and the measles vaccine. Only two out of his seven pointers were true, which leaves us wondering how reliable were the “facts” that he presented to R’ Elyashiv.
Those who are choosing not to vaccinate are basing their opinions on a growing body of mainstream experts in every field of science and medicine who are coming out publicly and stating their concern with the safety of vaccines. Worldwide experts in the field of virology, vaccinology, immunology, toxicology, autism, and stem cell research, among many others, have confirmed, through their own studies or experiments, biological links between vaccines or vaccines ingredients and a host of disorders and diseases. https://www.learntherisk.org/. Look at the correlation between the infant mortality rate in the US and the rise of vaccine requirements https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/.
Assuming you’re scared of autism, let’s say your stats are valid, the stats on Measles causing brain issues are a higher percent!?
Panelist: This is not difficult to figure out. The CDC has stats on both. The CDC has just updated the rate of autism in New Jersey to 1 in 36. The CDC states that there was a measles surveillance study in the 1980s and 1990s which showed that there were half as many measles encephalitis cases as there were deaths, making it 1 in 20,000 cases. Of these cases, 25% (1 in 80,000 cases of measles) resulted in residual neurological injury. Your claim is simply untrue and for one weighing the risks vs benefits of vaccinating or not vaccinating, in this case it’s pretty clear. See here.
There have been doctors that have been telling Rabbanim and parents that measles has a mortality rate of 1 in 1,000 cases, but the CDC website itself clarifies that prior to the vaccine, about 400 people out of 4 million cases died from the measles. This translates into a death rate of 1 in 10,000 cases.
Between 1900 and 1962, the year before the measles vaccine was introduced, the mortality rate from measles had already declined by over 98%.
https://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/#Meas_ScarlFev_etc. With such a steep decline in mortality, it’s reasonable to assume that by now, even without any vaccine, mortality from measles would be significantly lower than it was already, if not completely gone on its own, as was the case with typhus, typhoid, or cholera.
Given all this hard data, it is clear that autism, a devastating disability, is far more common than complications from measles.
There have been many studies linking autism to vaccines. The CDC claims on its website that they have done studies and they have proven that vaccines do not cause autism. A closer look at the studies on the CDC website shows clearly that the studies were done on ONE ingredient and ONE vaccine. Clearly this cannot be conclusive enough to state so boldly that all vaccines do not cause autism if no studies were done by the CDC on the dozens of other vaccines and ingredients within them. Hundreds of studies done by independent scientists proving a link between vaccines and autism.
If you can avoid an illness that can result in brain damage, why not avoid it? Furthermore, you expose so many people to illness by not vaccinating.
Panelist: You have just summed up the entire debate in one line! This is the question that every person who begins to look into the sugya asks himself. If one has any reason to believe that the way to avoid an illness that can result in brain damage can itself cause brain damage, logic would dictate that he should research the illness and its risks as well as the prevention method (vaccines) and its risks before he decides to take that measure. Again, if the way to avoid exposing other to illness may include serious detriment to oneself, one would have to research how much exposure and illness he will be causing vs the risks of the vaccines.
Why would one even begin to believe vaccines may be unsafe if majority of our doctors, including our local pediatricians, whom we trust, claim they are safe?
Of course, it takes training and expertise to understand and research this topic thoroughly. On a simple level, though, there are enough discrepancies within the CDC itself that can cause a layperson to have less confidence in their claims and begin to question them. Twelve senior CDC scientists stepped forward in 2016 with a formal report that the CDC is overrun by corporate influences and conflicts of interests,
and CDC leadership is no longer objectively serving the healthcare needs of our country.
Many other CDC scientists have exposed insider corruption as well: Transcripts of the Simpsonwood conference exposed that the CDC knew of the danger of thimerosal but
tried to cover it up.
William Thompson, a senior CDC epidemiologist on the 2004 MMR/autism study became a whistleblower and exposed that CDC omitted statistically significant information linking vaccines to autism, and failed to follow the study protocol.
Gary Goldman, another CDC scientist charged with overseeing the surveillance system of the use of the chickenpox vaccine, made the public aware that the CDC refused to report that the chickenpox vaccine increased the rate of shingles, which is a more serious and chronic condition than chickenpox.
Diane Harper, the scientist who developed the Gardasil/HPV vaccine, revealed that she never intended her vaccine to be used in young children; at that age the vaccine can be dangerous. “The vaccine is not for young girls, and not only may not protect them, but may cause the rates of cervical cancer to increase.” See also here.
Dr. Bernadine Healy, former director of the NIH (National Institute of Health) and former president of the American Red Cross, revealed that public health officials intentionally avoid researching adverse reactions from vaccines for fear that the results would ruin the public’s faith in the vaccine program. Watch HERE.
Dr. Juli Gerberding, former head of the CDC and current Merck board member (the leading vaccine maker), admitted that vaccines can trigger autism in individuals with an underlying mitochondrial disease, after the CDC denied a vaccine-autism connection. Watch HERE.
Dr. Andrew Zimmerman is one of the top neurologists and autism experts in the country. He is the government’s own pro-vaccine medical expert who helped the government and the pharmaceutical industry defeat vaccine/autism claims in vaccine court.
He now publicly revealed that the government suppressed his true opinion that vaccines can, and do cause autism in certain susceptible children. He informed the government about this over a decade ago, but they hid his opinion and misrepresented it in court in order to unjustly defeat 5000 autism cases.
What do you feel about measles parties? (where people who are not vaccinated get the measles on purpose since you can only get it once…)
Panelist: I’m not sure what your question is.
If you are asking if I personally would join a measles party, that is a personal question which I cannot answer and depends on many variables.
If you are asking if I am afraid of the measles, the answer is no, and that is because the statistics of the measles causing danger are very low. My parents and grandparents well remember the measles the way I remember the chickenpox and it was never considered a dangerous disease, rather a normal childhood illness that all children experienced and then were immune for life.
If you are asking WHY people have measles parties (out of genuine interest and curiosity and not out of sarcastic probing, of course…) Think of it this way: If you chose not to vaccinate because it is clear to you that the risks of the MMR are greater than the risks of the measles, and assuming you are as afraid of measles as you were of the common cold, and if your child not being immune to measles equals expulsion
from school, what would be the logical course of action?
The measles virus isn’t a mystery. The level of risk of injury from the measles is known, and it’s very low (see answer to #4 and #5). However, the measles vaccine has been proven in vaccine court to cause serious injury.
The CDC and the pharmaceutical companies have refused to do any saline-placebo study on this vaccine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj_jozfvjuU. There have been many studies that have shown that vaccines do cause injury. There have also been thousands of credible stories of measle vaccine injury. What’s unknown is the level of risk that is involved. Because of the recent enormous pressure that’s being placed on people to vaccinate, some have chosen to contract the measles, an infection with known risks and treatments, over the vaccine, whose risk is unknown. (In addition, there are studies that show that contracting measles as a child can have benefits, for it strengthens the immune system by training it in how to deal with future infection, and helps significantly reduce the incidences of other severe illnesses later in life. See links to dozens of studies here.
If You c’v had cancer would you go to the best hospital right away?
Panelist: What I hear in this question is the following: Are you normal? Do you take crazy risks when it comes to your health? If so, how can you be trusted with such an important medical decision regarding your child’s health?
How CAN a layperson make any medical decisions if they are not trained or schooled in medicine or science? It seems that people who make alternative choices in regard to their health have less “faith” in the medical system and conventional medicine than most people. Like anyone else, those people have as much of a desire to live and be well every day of their lives! If their health and wellness choices are leading
them elsewhere other than the medical establishment, they must have reason to have less faith in it.
One can argue on their reasoning but differing opinions on all matters has been around since the beginning of time…
What drives people’s confidence in the vaccine program? Most are putting faith in their local pediatricians of whom they have close-up assessment of their expertise and character. Do these doctors receive training in vaccinology, immunology, toxicology or vaccine adverse effects in medical school? The answer is NO, and they will tell you this themselves. They are taught how to administer vaccines and they are told that they are safe and effective.
So, who are the doctors trusting? The CDC. The eminent body of doctors and scientists who have the knowledge and expertise it takes to keep us healthy and safe from disease. It would make sense to rely on them without question… until one finds inconsistencies and discrepancies within the CDC that are impossible to ignore. This would naturally lead a person to do more research to understand exactly what is going on… hence the vaccine risk awareness movement, a natural outcome of the following facts, easily findable online.
What are the interesting health things you have, for example, some people do certain things when they pass an EZ pass, others don’t drink pasteurized milk etc.
Panelist: Firstly, you must realize that there are many, many people who don’t vaccinate but in every other aspect of health and general lifestyle are typical and mainstream. They might not appreciate being lumped with a category of people who are judged for doing weird and unconventional things in the name of health.
They have made an intelligent decision based on logic and research and deserve respect for that alone. That being said, many a thing was once considered weird and has now been accepted into society. From different therapies to eating less sugar to avoiding smoking, and the list goes on… I’m sure you can think of a thing or two that you do that others might not understand but you have solid reasoning behind it and
experience to prove it…
Remember the Mishna “al tadin es chavercha ad shetagia limkomo…”? It is most difficult to apply when we have no understanding at all why someone would do something that we would never do… The very first step would be to be curious about “mikomo”… perhaps to ask genuinely or at the very least to simply respect another Jew even when he makes choices that, from where you stand, you cannot understand.
If you choose to comment, be respectful.
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