GL Exclusive: Anti-Vaxxers responses – Part 1

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GL arranged for a ‘team of anti-vaxxers’ to answer vaccination-related questions. GreaterLakewood reports extensively on Measles outbreaks, news and other information and this is a way to hear their side of the story and put it out there.

We posted about 30+ measles related stories in 3 months.

8 questions were presented by GL readers to the panel of three – the third panelist backed out at last minute saying the questions were unfair.

Question #1  

What’s it like knowing that you’re the cause of the rise of Anti-Semitism? We the 97% suffer from antisemitism thanks to the 3% who don’t vaccinate.  Does any of the effects on innocent people that you have caused make you think twice about your movement? 

Panelist 1: It bothers me, but firstly, you’re not mechuyev to injure yourselves in order to avoid anti-semitism. Secondly, anti-semitism didn’t start from the measles and it won’t end there. Thirdly, I doubt it produced new anti-semites, everyone knows that the anti-vaxxers are everywhere, at most it inflamed the anti-semites.

Panelist 2: “We the 97% suffer from Anti-Semitism thanks to the 3% that still keep Shabbos and eat Kosher! What a Chillul Hashem!!” It cannot be a Chillul Hashem if the behavior is appropriate. So we must first determine if it is appropriate for an individual parent to choose to promote natural immunity in their child, and say no to a dangerous medical procedure. Once we determine if it is appropriate or not, we can talk about whether it causes a Kiddush Hashem or Chillul Hashem.


Question #2  

Do you remember the polio epidemic? Do you know why these days polio is extinct in the United States? Because of vaccinations. Why don’t you learn from history?

Panelist 1: Polio is eradicated. We ceased giving the smallpox vaccine after smallpox was eradicated. And yes, it is the only vaccine I would consider giving if there were an outbreak. But we give 72! We vaccinate newborns for a disease that are non-existent in our community (other countries don’t give the vaccine before the mothers are tested for positive). We vaccinate for rotavirus that prevents acute diarrhea! But there is a lot of evidence that poliovirus only causes harm in conjunction with the pesticide DDT which was banned in 1972. (Israel which was late in introducing DDT – in the early 1950s – was late in having a polio epidemic.)

Panelist 2: The narrative that is taught about Polio and Smallpox can best be described as a gross oversimplification. This narrative promoted by official government sources and the media ignores countless other factors that were at play at that time. Just as an example, polio which had been a common benign childhood illness for many decades, suddenly began causing paralysis and breathing problems. This had a lot to do with common use of a toxic chemical called DDT (now illegal) that was being sprayed onto children as they came to school, and on virtually all the food crops. I would rather not spend time debating vaccines that are no longer in use for diseases that no longer exist. Let’s stick to discussing Measles and the MMR.

Question #3 


So many Gedolim came out against it. R’ Moshe Sternbach, R elyashiv and many others.  If you do it for religious reasons, who is your leading Posek?

Panelist 1:First of all, the claim that Rav Eliyashiv and others came out for vaccines is irrelevant, as they were never shown the other side. Furthermore, If an aguna gets a psak that she can get remarried, but later meets her husband, can she still get remarried? Obviously not. Same here, if we see the injuries with our eyes, it really makes no difference what the psak is, as halacha in this case is dictated on the facts. (not c”v to degrade the Godolim. Harav Shmuel Kamenetzky Shlit”a said it’s a gezeira min hashamayim rabbonim shouldn’t see the truth.)

Panelist 2: Vaccines are discussed by many Poskim and Gedolim. There is no clear consensus either way. However any Psak that is based on hearing one side of the debate and refusing to acknowledge the existence of another side, cannot be applied to our discussion. The Psak may be 100% accurate, but it applies only to half of the Shaila. For a recent example Rav Shternbuch recently wrote an extensive Tshuva that began “I have received information that Measles will kill 1 or 2 out of 1000 cases. Based on this the Psak is etc. etc.” The information he received was blatantly false, and the accurate number is closer to 1 out of 100,000, and that one death can be attributed to severe nutritional deficiencies and other life threatening health problems. The Psak is correct, it’s just the wrong Shaila.

Question #4


Assuming you’re scared of autism, let’s say your stats are valid, the stats on Measles causing brain issues are a higher percent!?

Panelist 1: These numbers come from the CDC’s surveillance data. When you’ll convince me that the CDC’s claim that chickenpox can be serious, and even deadly, is correct, I’ll believe them on the measles. The British Medical Journal in 1985 titled “Deaths from measles in England and Wales, 1970-83” wrote “The overall ratio of deaths to measles notifications was 1 – 5 per 10,000 … Measel is widely considered a benign disease with a negligible mortality rate in developed countries“. A far cry from 1-2 per 1,000 as per CDC.

Panelist 2:“Higher Percent causing brain issues”… Hmmm… let’s see. Autism rate in NJ: 1 in 50 kids. Encephalitis from Measles 1 in 1000 reported measles cases. Less than 1 in 1 Million kids. (Official numbers). It’s pretty close I’ll have to admit.

Question #5

If you can avoid an illness that can result in brain damage, why not avoid it? Furthermore, you expose so many people to illness by not vaccinating.

Panelist 1: Would you trade $100 dollars for $1? Vaccines are not categorized as drugs but as biologics and therefore do not require placebo-controlled studies. Hence, It’s consequences are unknown. Is it possible the reason we have skyrocketing autism, ADHD, asthma, therapy needs, and allergies?! Everyone can attest to that by scanning the grocery aisle which is lined up with gluten-free, soy free and egg free products. Our children can’t bring peanut butter to school. We didn’t have all this when we’re growing up and only got a tenth of the vaccines we give these days. Part 2: Live vaccines shed, hence, people who vaccinate are also spreading illnesses.

Panelist 2:If the goal is Healthy Children, the results are pretty clear. In every large scale study comparing the health outcomes of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children, the unvaccinated kids are by far healthier in every measurable category, including the most important categories: infant mortality and incidence of chronic illness.

Question #6

What do you feel about measles parties? (where people who are not vaccinated get the measles on purpose since you can only get it once…)

Panelist 1:The CDC now recommends adults to get a booster shot when ones immunity wears off which can be every couple of years. Although one exception, those who were born before 1957 don’t need this booster shot. Why? Because they have natural immunity. I want the natural immunity as a kid when it’s the easiest to overcome, and not require booster shots all my life and it’s side effects.

Panelist 2:If you read any medical textbook from the 1960’s you will find “Measles in children provides a great benefit to the development of the child’s immune system, providing life long immunity to the measles, and a more robust immune response to many other diseases as well. Symptoms of the actual infection can be easily mitigated through proper hydration and supplementation of Vitamin A.” Obviously this section was edited out after someone invented a vaccine.

Question #7

If You c’v had cancer would you go to the best hospital right away?

Panelist 1: Absolutely! Although, I would add a vitamin protocol with the consent of my doctor.

Panelist 2: Here’s the Dirty Little Secret that the Cancer Industry Doesn’t want you know: For those that do their best to avoid overuse of pharmaceutical products (including vaccines), promote robust immune system function, maintain high Vitamin D levels, reduce inflammation, and live an emotionally balanced lifestyle, the risk of cancer can be reduced by 90% or more. That being said, if I were to ever receive such a diagnosis, I would take it as a sign that my body is in need of balance, and a higher state of nutrition. I would NOT expose myself to the brutal onslaught of radiation and chemo.

Question #8

What are the interesting health things you have, for example, some people do certain things when they pass an EZ pass, others don’t drink pasteurized milk etc.

Panelist 1: I try to use my cell-phone on speaker as per FDA recommendations.

Panelist 2: If we are to believe that this world is the result of the Masterful Design of a Creator, than it would probably make sense to seek to live a lifestyle that is in alignment with the way in which it was designed. We would seek out foods that are a close as possible to their natural state, and avoid as best as possible unnecessary processing, and toxic man-made influences.

If you choose to comment, be respectful.

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70 COMMENTS

  1. The din in halacah is that we follow the majority even if one testified otherwise. As sakanta is chamira m’isurah is the rule of following the majority (Roiv) applicable?

    • I’m not sure how this is related to this debate but to answer your question, I think it’s mevuar in the Gemara that chamira sakanta meisura tells us that even though by issur we go basar rov, by sakana we have to be choshesh for the miut also and be machmir accordingly

    • it’s also chamira sakanta m’issura the other way around to subject one to the chashash of vaccine injury. In a way the vaccination is worse because one is doing a meise that can cause sakanta as apposed to not vaccinating which is shev v’al tasse (even if one can debate which sakanta/chashash sakanta is bigger, and let’s say non vaccination is bigger but it’s still a meisse). Maybe shev v’al tasse and leave it up to hashem.

        • R’ Shternbuch indicates that his psak is based information given to him by doctors (not that he personally researched). The information he says he was given by the doctors is that measles can cause death in 1-2 people out of every 1,000 that contract the disease. He builds his whole psak on this fact, if it is true.

          Based on my research, this fact is not true for people in the US.
          So his psak does not apply to people in the US.
          But it does apply to people in countries where this fact is true.
          And there definitely, positively, are such countries, even today.
          So, if you live in one of those countries where measles can cause death in 1-2 out of 1,000 people, you should read R’ Shternbuch’s psak.

          If you live in the US, it does not apply to you.

          If anybody would like links to the information on the number of deaths in measles in the US, contact me via GreaterLakewood.

        • There is a misconception in the halachic sheila and vaccine debate. It is clear that there are dangers to vaccine (adverse affects proceeding vaccination) and also negative effects later on (for example the chances of other diseases are higher due to not having natural immunity to the more common chicken pox etc.), Also autoimmune diseases caused by vaccine. On the other hand vaccines have a high rate of preventing the disease it is intended for (for an X amount of years is another debate). There is no tzad at all saying that vaccines are 100% safe with no negative effect, those that say that are simply missing some seichal hayashar; don’t understand how to process information on a subject. Some doctors have said such type of wording before “completely safe” etc, they say it because they have strong feeling for vaccines and herd immunity, because once you bring up research and studies of vaccine injuries and adverse effects they just answer but we need vaccines we need herd immunity.
          The real debate is about weighing the pros and cons and one can argue to what extent the danger is to each side and which risk is larger.
          Therefore, the letter mentioned above does not answer the sheila about the chashash sakanah of vaccination. whoever was peddling the info the the Rav simply didn’t set it up right. He writes in his letter; even though there are many yechidim Doctors that hold that vaccines can cause damage still most of the doctors hold there is absolutely no damages caused by vaccine, therefore we are not choshesh for the miut. He continues on about even though regarding safek pikuach nefesh we are choshesh for the miut here etc . This paragraph is based on the misconception stated above. therefore there is still a strong sheila regarding injecting something that clearly has chashash pikuach nefesh and even more its doing a meisse vs shev val tasse.
          I called myself anti the anti anti-vaxx for this reason, if someone can’t understand that there is a valid other side and even call anti-vaxx people names then they are missing some info or simply don’t have seichel hayashar.

  2. Panelist 1. Do you know anything about history? You write ‘at most it inflamed the anti-semites’. Spot on. That’s an atrocity in itself! Never did we care in Galus solely about making new anti semites. Inflaming the anti semites is playing with fire!

    • I hear the concern that you are scared of new anti-semites. Fact though is that in history the atrocities happen when the goyim are capable of bringing the Yiddishe community apart and fight between themselves. The best way is to respect everyone with their decision. ANd for those Yidden that went to the government officials saying those using religious exemptions are not real and just using it as an excuse for their craziness are those that are opening a big hole for the goyim to be able to meddle with our other religious issues…

      The vaccine debate is a heated one, but all we can do is be respectful and nice to both parties, as we are being looked at in many angles. The goyim have many anti-vaxxers too, they are actually quite disappointed that Jews are willing to forgo religious exemption just for this. That can also incite Chillul Hashem.

    • Correlation does not equal causation, but when there are so many cases things going wrong after vaccination (and so many cases of random death followed by vaccination) then maybe we should go with the facts rather than saying there is no scientific evidence. Not being able to scientifically prove something doesn’t take away from the facts. The gemara says when they know that the halacha is such and they have a kashia they can’t currently answer they say Kashia.
      Just to point out; the scientific community constantly change their views on matters that they supposedly researched and studied and concluded one way in the matter only to change it later on.

      • Why do we need placebo testing? Placebo tests are there to test for the placebo effect. Tiny babies would not be affected by that.

        • Placebo testing is to assess the efficacy and also the negative effects (i.e. adverse reactions/ side effects) of a drug or treatment.

  3. Just a reminder everyone, it’s Sefirah.
    Let’s not let vaccinations draw us Yidden apart and cause such Machlokes.

  4. This whole thing was a stupid idea. The responses of the anti-vaxxers as usual reflect hearsay, conspiracy theories, and a total lack of understanding of science. I’m disappointed in GL which is generally a good resource for our community that time was given to these ignorant responders to air their nonsense and possibly influence those who have not researched the issues using credible resources. There are NOT two sides to this story – only the correct one, that vaccines save lives and are mandatory. B”H, most states are working on changing the laws so that the only exemptions allowed will be truly medical ones. If the anti-vaxxers want to continue to adhere to their false religion, they’ll need to find another country! B”H!

    • Any limit on any religious freedom should scare everyone no matter where one stands on this particular issue. They went after metzitzah bepeh and after our chinuch. No one with sound thinking should allow any penetration into what is currently by law considered a religious right. Even if one feels there is a difference between this and other matters, the government may not. If they feel they can remove this religious exemption than any religious exemption can be removed for anything on the basis that times are changing and we have to be more open minded. We may not be able to have separate seating in shul one day ch”v.

    • This is the holier than thou approach of mainstream. “You don’t understand science.” Stop assuming that anyone who doesn’t agree with you doesn’t have a brain. There are tons of very very smart people who are cautious about vaccines. Get rid of the hubris and maybe read some of the books on the subject. You want to believe your doctor, that’s your choice. You would have been entitled to believe your doctor in the 1950s that smoking was the healthiest thing you could do. The fact that all doctors say something doesn’t prove it right. Those that want to shut down this discussion have something at play inside them other than a desire to search for the truth. Let’s become civil and work toward the betterment of our children. Let’s stop this shouting match and respect alternative points of view. Especially when we didn’t really go through the effort of researching their claims. Read JB Handley’s book as a starting point. Have a nice day.

    • Instead of saying we don’t know the science, please bring us the science pro-vaccine as everyone is saying there is and nobody can seem to provide them.
      Medications are tested against a placebo, and then monitored for years. Unfortunately, the scientists claim is it unethical with vaccines and didn’t monitor some of them for more than a few days.
      Even with the rigorous testing of other medication, we hear years later it was recalled because it was found to be unsafe, check out Vioxx. So how can you assume that vaccines are safe, if the studies weren’t properly conducted and whenever people complain about adverse reactions they are being told it is correlation and not causation?
      Furthermore, after speaking to MANY provax mothers, I find that they have no clue what vaccines they are giving their children. First education should really be what they are giving, why and how many people actually contracted the disease and died. Then a risk/benefit analysis can be made, together with the rise of many illnesses that happened simultaneously as the vaccine schedule increased.
      From my experience, anyone looking into the science honestly, either became quiet and allowed their neighbors to do as they see fit or stopped vaccinating too. I believe that anyone still giving rely on the doctors or have never seriously looked into it.

    • The answers in this article were a view into the minds of the anti-vaxxers. Although some may be more intelligent than these respondents, the responses are not usually more intelligent.

      When I find someone who researched it themselves and decided that vaccination is dangerous, I will think again. But research does not mean Wikipedia. If they go to school, study epidemology and statistics and work through the literature, I will be satisfied. But meaningless bleating about placebo tests and double-blind studies (which btw, have been done on MMR. Google will tell you that. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27149048) is not a substitute for actually finding out the truth.

      • I checked link. It was NOT tested against a placebo.
        Testing against a placebo is there to see the outcome of both children for a number of years and see how it affects them.

      • I agree with you that anti-vaxxers sometimes come across as intelligent. But so do you! Can you please read the publication at the link referenced here? I am confused, I see the words double-blind, but I read the publication and it seems to me to be describing a study of a newer version of MMRV (Measles Mumps Rubella and Varicella all in one vaccine) compared to the currently in use version. If I understand correctly, I think this is an example of the type of studies mentioned by the intelligent of the anti-vaxxers, so you probably meant to link a different study? They mention studies where a newer version is compared to an older version, or to a different vaccine or to just the adjuvants. Please please find me a publication regarding a study done with placebo comparisons. I would be so grateful, as I do hear their point regarding the lack of true safety studies. Thank you.

      • The study you linked to is describing one vaccine vs. another variation of the same vaccine. That’s not a double blind placebo study. In order to do that, they would have had to have compared it to an inert saline solution with nothing else in it. They haven’t done it and aren’t planning to.

        The easiest study would to simply be to compare the fully unvaccinated children against the fully vaccinated children for health outcomes. Why not?

        When people can stand to hear or ask the questions, it’s not because they fear the questions, but the answers.

    • to ‘vaccinator’ We appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately, we disagree and feel that nothing bad can occur from people having a respectful conversation.

  5. (Q3)
    Panelist 1-“Harav Shmuel Kamenetzky Shlit”a said it’s a gezeira min hashamayim rabbonim shouldn’t see the truth”
    Maybe the gezeira was on Harav shmuel shlita?
    Panelist 2-
    “the accurate number is closer to 1 out of 100,000″
    not in recent outbreaks?
    (q4)”The overall ratio of deaths to measles notifications was 1 – 5 per 10,000”
    A STIRAH!?
    panelist 2-“Autism rate in NJ: 1 in 50 kids.”
    if vaccines make autism, why are autism cases rising if vaccination rates aren’t?
    (Q7)
    Panelist 2-” I would NOT expose myself to the brutal onslaught of radiation and chemo.”
    ok, now you doen’t even have rav shmuel. I’m thinking that it was probably L”H to quote this!

    • I wasn’t going to get involved, because I don’t want to get involved in machlokes, but now I feel I must stand up for Kavod Hatorah!

      Just to start, I am pro vaccines. I hear Harav Shmuel being quoted, and from experience, personally wouldn’t trust the veracity of these sources without personally veryifying and asking Harav Shmuel myself or getting a much more reliable source than internet posts.

      But here is where I get MAD!

      To the commenter named “Please at least make sense” who said “Maybe the gezeira was on Harav shmuel shlita?”

      HOW DARE YOU SAY SUCH A THING. I am a pro-vaxer but that comment was completely uncalled for.
      You can maybe say it was misquoted, but what kind of shoulders do you have to say that about Rav Shmuel Shlita?

      I am not at all getting involved in the vaccine argument, only the absolute tremendous chutzpa and chillul Hashem of your comment.

        • I did verify. I can’t deny that I was surprised. Wow. Scary what this town has done by excluding unvaccinated children. Hashem Yeracheim.

      • Why is it Ok to say it about Rav Elyashiv and not about Reb Shmuel?
        The point was, if saying ‘it is a gezeira on rabbonim’ is an option, we can never trust Rabbonim any more.

        • No one is ChV saying there is a gezeira for Rav Elyashiv to make a mistake like the earlier mechutzif said about Rav Shmuel. What is known is that Rav Elyashiv was not provided with correct information and the same is true with Rav Moshe Shternbuch and that I heard from a Rosh Hayeshiva.

        • How about everyone listen to the Rav that they ask their shailos to? And stop shunning those who listen to a Rav who says something different than their own Rav? I’m sure that will bring more heavenly protection than forcing others to do our way, and than embarrassing or speaking Lashon Harah about those who don’t do our way.

  6. Excellent post! Very well said. And yes my children are all vaccinated but I am definitely aware that there are dangers involved in instilling toxins into young children and babies. Do so with caution- ensure they are eating and sleeping well, give vitamins, don’t travel, avoid anything stressful to the child at the time before and after vaccinating. And of course daven that the vaccine should do no harm. It is clear that there is potential for harm from vaccines. It is a matter of having knowledge of and weighing the risks vs benefits.

  7. I wonder who are the conspiracy theorists when you have thousands of parents who say they bought a healthy child to the doctor got a vaccine and lost the child. Never made eye contact again. They are in the USA, Europe, Asia all across the globe.
    It is said in the name of Harah Elya Ber Wachtfogel shlit”a, that one who forces another to vaccinate and the child gets injured, is considered a rotzeach bemeizod. Frightening.
    You can disagree with us, but at least respect our position.

    • Sounds like we already have two gedolim who are not saying one must vaccinate? So then why is everyone all over saying that ALL the gedolim and poskim say one must vaccinate?

      • Good question. The question still is open – what causes autism. Being that it has not been answered yet, nobody could say with 100% certainty that science has proven that there is no correlation between vaccines and autism. For all we know, it could be something that a child of a vaccinated parent is more prone to for some reason (this may be a ridiculous theory, but who knows? The medical world does not know yet what causes autism).

      • 1. Alabama does not require the hep-b vaccine which is given to newborns and contains aluminum. 2. I wonder why the CDC only show the autism rates of 8 states, let them show all 50 states and let’s see if it correlates with the vaccination rates. Are they deliberately only showing what works in their favor, or am I missing something? 3. Epidemiological evidence is good for a starting point, the gold standard is having two groups with one receiving a placebo, that is the only way you can prove something conclusively, and that has not been done on a single vaccine.

      • There may be more than one cause to autism. Maybe without vaccines Alabama would have even less cases of autism. Studies of this sort don’t really prove much. The stories of normal children going crazy after receiving vaccines would be much more reason of concern than studies. A study is done with a specific group of people, vaccine reactions are random and vary from person to person and vaccine to vaccine. Different DNA and body chemical make ups react differently to each different batch of a vaccine. Even though the argument is that it happened by chance, Correlation does not equal causation, I would think common sense says that would be true if it happened a couple of times, but when there are thousands of such stories than even it is not scientifically understood it should still be a major concern. The Scientific is far from perfect, they constantly change their minds on different topics.

  8. Vaccines are harmless. This year alone (past 4 months) the gov’t paid 139 million dollars for vaccine injuries. indeed harmless.

  9. And besides if vaccines are harmless, the injuries one in a million, correlation doesn’t proof causation blah blah blah…. Why are pharmaceutical companies immune to liability by the 1986 law? Wouldn’t you think a multi billion dollar industry can handle paying out 1 in a million in liability?

    For those that are okay with their children’s vaccine schedule and think vaccines are the way to go. Healthy people 20/20 the next project is to mandate many vaccines on adults. I keep wondering if people will look into more once they cant renew their driver’s license without an updated vaccine record, or wouldn’t it be a good idea to be proactive and seriously look into it, to see what can be done to not allow the laws to be passed.

  10. Q#2 Polio is because of DDT OK Please explain -the US started to use DDT in 1939 In the 1930’s and years before towns would close swimming pools & movie houses any place were children gathered to stop the spread of Polio. The US banned DDT in 1971 the Polio vaccine came out in 1955 before that everyone rich poor city or country got Polio After that only people who did not get vaccine got it. Please explain how you can blame DDT when people were getting in large # before the country started to use it?

        • I did write my personal opinion that it’s the one vaccine I’d consider giving if there were an outbreak, as I myself don’t have a clear conclusion. But in the book mentioned he covers polio I rechecked it, he doesn’t cover your question, but there is a lot of evidence and many unswered questions.

  11. First of all, thank you GL for displaying courage by posting this interview/ debate, whatever you call it. It’s always questionable when someone doesn’t want to even discuss or hear another side. Most mainstream sites are not brave enough.

    My children are vaccinated, as per their pediatrician’s advice. When my child was diagnosed with a glioma, (type of brain cancer), of course, I did go to the top hospital and specialists in the field. During that experience, I learned something that most people don’t know because it is very up and coming. A top brain surgeon in a top hospital informed us of something that causes me great sadness:
    That my child’s risk in developing a glioma (type of brain cancer) was raised close to 40% because the child never had chicken pox!

    This is not coming from an anti-vaxxers or from an alternative type of practitioner. It is coming from a mainstream MD who frum medical referral agencies would send you flying across the country to get treated by him (you should never need).

    One might assume that the varicella vaccine, which injects the chicken pox virus, would provide the same protection as actually having chicken pox. But this doctor said no – the specific proteins that provide the protection against gliomas once someone was sick with the chicken pox virus, are unfortunately not found in the varicella vaccine.

    I also received information from a different MD – my child’s neuro-oncologist – regarding various up and coming cancer treatments. It is still in the works, but based on that information we can deduce that chicken pox, and MEASLES, yes MEASLES, can prevent cancer later on in life. So, yes, we can’t argue that the vaccine idea is brilliant. But, by playing around with the immune system of babies and young children, we may have saved them from getting certain diseases, but have we exchanged those for worse diseases?

    Because of my personal experience, it’s hard to sleep at night knowing this. How I wish I knew this back when the pediatrician ordered the varicella vaccine for my child… I definitely would have chosen the risk of chicken pox over what he had…

  12. These choshuve panelists are on to something. They obiously spent a lot of time studying the matter. I’m shocked how our pediatricians here in town don’t know that same information! I’m dismayed that they didnt do any follow up reasearch, and put our children at risk. I’m mortified that my childs pediatrician (who is supposed an altruistic baal tzedokoh) was probably paid off by big pharma! He greedily sold my children down the river for selfish reasons. Where is his conscious? why why 🙁

    • They don’t mean bad, they simply believe in the CDC. Every new vaccine that is added on schedule they start giving without question.

      • I think you didn’t understand the comment. The doctors are not paid off, they are still waiting for that check you guys claim is coming.
        The name ‘tongue in cheek’ should have told you that.

        • You’re asking a good question, but it doesn’t change the facts, I wish I were wrong! I’ll change my opinion rather quick if I get my answers. The fact of the matter is that doctors don’t have the answers, they rely on the CDC.

        • Can you please research this? Dr. Paul Offit, for example, was paid by Merck (they funded his research for 13 years, he got their check). Merck also bought and delivered many copies of this book “What every parent should know about vaccines” to American doctors.

          Let’s be open to hearing the possibility that the CDC and some doctors are nogaiya. Of course I am not suspecting our local doctors, chas v’shalom! But there are those who are nogaiya. And it is not a secret that most doctors get their info from Dr. Offit and the CDC. (And Dr. Offit was a member of the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices for many years). Please research how much Dr. Offit made off the diarrhea vaccine (rotavirus). The CDC themselves made $5.8 million from royalties due to patents they own on just one vaccine, and they own patents on many.

  13. The anti-vaxxers have now left the blackhat community as a whole vulnerable to mob violence resulting from accusations of spreading mumps and measles (and what starts with the blackhats never ends with the blackhats; it will eventually come to the chiloniim).

    Can you say “Bubonic Plague?”

  14. Bubonic plague, also known as the black plague, still exists today, mostly in third world countries. It kills close to 100% of people who get it, if untreated; and 10% if treated. It is actually a bacterial infection, treated with gentamicin. It killed an estimated 75-100 million people in the 14th century.
    But for someone as educated as all antivaxxers are, why have I seen this question asked so many times? You all claim to have done so much independent research, and really do know all there is to know in order to understand vaccines and how they work. So why am I, an uneducated, unresearched, stupid pro-vaxxer, able to answer these complex questions?
    Maybe there is more to medicine and vaccines that the laymen that we are can possibly comprehend???

  15. If so, why is it that we don’t have it here in the US? Are there no airplanes from those third world countries?

  16. It is in this country from time to time. It doesn’t cause major breakouts because whoever does get it gets treated. Also, death from the disease is quick, so not much time to spread it unknowingly, unlike the measles. (no, I’m not saying that measles is a killer-but it is contagious well before a person has significant symptoms.)

    • So the treatment is what saves lives as you state, not the vaccine.
      And besides measles is not as contagious as they make it seem.
      There are many mothers that have their children home in Brooklyn and are looking for every opportunity to expose their children to measles to get them back to school. Many have exposed their children more than three times and are still waiting. And many have children of the same family with measles and still some siblings didn’t get it. That makes it super contagious!!!!!

  17. The bubonic plague symptoms start 3-7 days after exposure, and often kills as fast as 24 hours after symptoms start. In the years 1347-1351, approximately 30-50% of the population of Europe.

  18. there was no vaccine created for it, as there is antibiotics. the answers to all the questions you ask are easily found on google. simple search. If I remember correctly, there are an average of 9 cases a year in the USA. People don’t “have it”. They get it, and either die or get treated and healed. Who said that vaccines are a cure-it-all?

    • Look up Physicians for Informed Consent. It is not specifically an anti-vax group (some in it might be antivax, others have a different vaccine schedule than the cdc) but a group of doctors who want patients to have better information on the cost/benefits of vaccines to make individualized decisions about if a vaccine is right for them.

  19. The medical community used to consider the appendix and tonsils unnecessary, tonsils removal was a regular procedure, now they pulled back and every day there are new studies showing the benefits of these organs. Can’t wait till the same thing happens with the measles.
    Science is never settled.
    Why do I have to wait and suffer till they change their mind?!

  20. Thanks GL for having this discussion. You’re a real mensch. I’m a fully vaccinated Jew who has experienced plenty of antisemitism. If anything from what I have observed, its Jewish doctors or outspoken Jews who use their credentials or authoritarianism (not knowledge) that breeds a new reason to be antisemitic.

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