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GL arranged for a ‘team of anti-vaxxers’ to answer vaccination-related questions. GreaterLakewood reports extensively on Measles outbreaks, news and other information and this is a way to hear their side of the story and put it out there.
8 questions were presented by GL readers to the panel of three – the third panelist backed out at last minute saying the questions were unfair.
What’s it like knowing that you’re the cause of the rise of Anti-Semitism? We the 97% suffer from antisemitism thanks to the 3% who don’t vaccinate. Does any of the effects on innocent people that you have caused make you think twice about your movement?
Panelist 1: It bothers me, but firstly, you’re not mechuyev to injure yourselves in order to avoid anti-semitism. Secondly, anti-semitism didn’t start from the measles and it won’t end there. Thirdly, I doubt it produced new anti-semites, everyone knows that the anti-vaxxers are everywhere, at most it inflamed the anti-semites.
Panelist 2: “We the 97% suffer from Anti-Semitism thanks to the 3% that still keep Shabbos and eat Kosher! What a Chillul Hashem!!” It cannot be a Chillul Hashem if the behavior is appropriate. So we must first determine if it is appropriate for an individual parent to choose to promote natural immunity in their child, and say no to a dangerous medical procedure. Once we determine if it is appropriate or not, we can talk about whether it causes a Kiddush Hashem or Chillul Hashem.
Do you remember the polio epidemic? Do you know why these days polio is extinct in the United States? Because of vaccinations. Why don’t you learn from history?
Panelist 1: Polio is eradicated. We ceased giving the smallpox vaccine after smallpox was eradicated. And yes, it is the only vaccine I would consider giving if there were an outbreak. But we give 72! We vaccinate newborns for a disease that are non-existent in our community (other countries don’t give the vaccine before the mothers are tested for positive). We vaccinate for rotavirus that prevents acute diarrhea! But there is a lot of evidence that poliovirus only causes harm in conjunction with the pesticide DDT which was banned in 1972. (Israel which was late in introducing DDT – in the early 1950s – was late in having a polio epidemic.)
Panelist 2: The narrative that is taught about Polio and Smallpox can best be described as a gross oversimplification. This narrative promoted by official government sources and the media ignores countless other factors that were at play at that time. Just as an example, polio which had been a common benign childhood illness for many decades, suddenly began causing paralysis and breathing problems. This had a lot to do with common use of a toxic chemical called DDT (now illegal) that was being sprayed onto children as they came to school, and on virtually all the food crops. I would rather not spend time debating vaccines that are no longer in use for diseases that no longer exist. Let’s stick to discussing Measles and the MMR.
So many Gedolim came out against it. R’ Moshe Sternbach, R elyashiv and many others. If you do it for religious reasons, who is your leading Posek?
Panelist 1:First of all, the claim that Rav Eliyashiv and others came out for vaccines is irrelevant, as they were never shown the other side. Furthermore, If an aguna gets a psak that she can get remarried, but later meets her husband, can she still get remarried? Obviously not. Same here, if we see the injuries with our eyes, it really makes no difference what the psak is, as halacha in this case is dictated on the facts. (not c”v to degrade the Godolim. Harav Shmuel Kamenetzky Shlit”a said it’s a gezeira min hashamayim rabbonim shouldn’t see the truth.)
Panelist 2: Vaccines are discussed by many Poskim and Gedolim. There is no clear consensus either way. However any Psak that is based on hearing one side of the debate and refusing to acknowledge the existence of another side, cannot be applied to our discussion. The Psak may be 100% accurate, but it applies only to half of the Shaila. For a recent example Rav Shternbuch recently wrote an extensive Tshuva that began “I have received information that Measles will kill 1 or 2 out of 1000 cases. Based on this the Psak is etc. etc.” The information he received was blatantly false, and the accurate number is closer to 1 out of 100,000, and that one death can be attributed to severe nutritional deficiencies and other life threatening health problems. The Psak is correct, it’s just the wrong Shaila.
Assuming you’re scared of autism, let’s say your stats are valid, the stats on Measles causing brain issues are a higher percent!?
Panelist 1: These numbers come from the CDC’s surveillance data. When you’ll convince me that the CDC’s claim that chickenpox can be serious, and even deadly, is correct, I’ll believe them on the measles. The British Medical Journal in 1985 titled “Deaths from measles in England and Wales, 1970-83” wrote “The overall ratio of deaths to measles notifications was 1 – 5 per 10,000 … Measel is widely considered a benign disease with a negligible mortality rate in developed countries“. A far cry from 1-2 per 1,000 as per CDC.
Panelist 2:“Higher Percent causing brain issues”… Hmmm… let’s see. Autism rate in NJ: 1 in 50 kids. Encephalitis from Measles 1 in 1000 reported measles cases. Less than 1 in 1 Million kids. (Official numbers). It’s pretty close I’ll have to admit.
If you can avoid an illness that can result in brain damage, why not avoid it? Furthermore, you expose so many people to illness by not vaccinating.
Panelist 1: Would you trade $100 dollars for $1? Vaccines are not categorized as drugs but as biologics and therefore do not require placebo-controlled studies. Hence, It’s consequences are unknown. Is it possible the reason we have skyrocketing autism, ADHD, asthma, therapy needs, and allergies?! Everyone can attest to that by scanning the grocery aisle which is lined up with gluten-free, soy free and egg free products. Our children can’t bring peanut butter to school. We didn’t have all this when we’re growing up and only got a tenth of the vaccines we give these days. Part 2: Live vaccines shed, hence, people who vaccinate are also spreading illnesses.
Panelist 2:If the goal is Healthy Children, the results are pretty clear. In every large scale study comparing the health outcomes of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children, the unvaccinated kids are by far healthier in every measurable category, including the most important categories: infant mortality and incidence of chronic illness.
What do you feel about measles parties? (where people who are not vaccinated get the measles on purpose since you can only get it once…)
Panelist 1:The CDC now recommends adults to get a booster shot when ones immunity wears off which can be every couple of years. Although one exception, those who were born before 1957 don’t need this booster shot. Why? Because they have natural immunity. I want the natural immunity as a kid when it’s the easiest to overcome, and not require booster shots all my life and it’s side effects.
Panelist 2:If you read any medical textbook from the 1960’s you will find “Measles in children provides a great benefit to the development of the child’s immune system, providing life long immunity to the measles, and a more robust immune response to many other diseases as well. Symptoms of the actual infection can be easily mitigated through proper hydration and supplementation of Vitamin A.” Obviously this section was edited out after someone invented a vaccine.
If You c’v had cancer would you go to the best hospital right away?
Panelist 1: Absolutely! Although, I would add a vitamin protocol with the consent of my doctor.
Panelist 2: Here’s the Dirty Little Secret that the Cancer Industry Doesn’t want you know: For those that do their best to avoid overuse of pharmaceutical products (including vaccines), promote robust immune system function, maintain high Vitamin D levels, reduce inflammation, and live an emotionally balanced lifestyle, the risk of cancer can be reduced by 90% or more. That being said, if I were to ever receive such a diagnosis, I would take it as a sign that my body is in need of balance, and a higher state of nutrition. I would NOT expose myself to the brutal onslaught of radiation and chemo.
What are the interesting health things you have, for example, some people do certain things when they pass an EZ pass, others don’t drink pasteurized milk etc.
Panelist 1: I try to use my cell-phone on speaker as per FDA recommendations.
Panelist 2: If we are to believe that this world is the result of the Masterful Design of a Creator, than it would probably make sense to seek to live a lifestyle that is in alignment with the way in which it was designed. We would seek out foods that are a close as possible to their natural state, and avoid as best as possible unnecessary processing, and toxic man-made influences.
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