Satmar Rebbe & R’ Elya Ber met physicians to discuss vaccinations, read what happened

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There was a two hour heated debate at the home of the Satmar Rebbe of Kiryas Yoel, on the topic of vaccinations. R’ Elya Ber Wachtfogel was in attendance as well. R’ Elya Ber is reportedly an Anti-vaxxer.

GreaterLakewood is working on verifying some of the specifics below.

The anti-vaxxers brought a physician from Oklohoma, who made four points.

  1. vaccinations are dangerous,
  2. It is against the Torah (I don’t think they brought a DR for that)
  3. Doctors are bought by the pharmaceutical companies
  4. The health department is wrong

The pro-vaxxers had Dr Wertzberger & another doctor (some Hatzolah member were there as well).

Related: GL Exclusive: Anti-Vaxxers responses – Part 1

When the Oklahoma physician said the Torah doesn’t allow it, the Rebbe said ‘leave the Torah out’ just stick to medical facts. After several questions, they realized this ‘top doctor from Oklahoma’ never dealt with Kids. He was not a pediatrician.

Dr. Wertzberger said he was a pediatrician and has been seeing children for 30+ years and vaccinated over 10,000 children. He said of course vaccinations are a good thing etc. and he has the stats from his own patients to show it.

The ‘top doctor from Oklahoma’ said that doctors are all bought out by the pharmaceutical companies. To which Dr Wertzberger replied ‘ how much did you get paid to come here!?

During the exchange, some anti-vaxxers in the room started screaming that kids die from vaccines. The Rebbe said people died from heart surgery should we not do heart surgery? People died from the needle at the dentist, should we not go to the dentist anymore? The Rebbe said the bottom line is we will not force you to vaccinate but don’t put us in danger. The Anti-vaxxers should open their own schools, shuls, camps & playgrounds.

The Anti-vaxxers should open their own schools, shuls, camps & playgrounds.

Satmar Rebbe

49 COMMENTS

  1. Fake news. R’ Elya Ber is not an anti-vaxer. He advises everyone to vaccinate. The Falsberg Yeshiva community in %100 compliant.

  2. What gadlus and leadership on the part of the Satmar Rebbe! As usual, the anti-vaxxers have to scrounge around to find a doctor to support their warped point of view! A doctor from Oklahoma who hasn’t cared for children??!! Now that’s really scraping the bottom of the barrel. They can never find anyone from the tristate area! And, on top of it, he’s “paskening” for the Satmar Rav??!! What a joke! This anti-vaxxer position gets more and more ludicrous all the time!! The Satmar Rav is showing such leadership here to Klal Yisroel! And of course there’s no pediatrician with this kind of experience like Dr. Wertzberger! Almost makes a Litvak like me want to become Satmar!!!

  3. I BH have some children vaccinated and some not, you can not compare the health outcomes. My vaccinated ones had recurrent ear infection, strep, wheezing, eczema, allergies, one even had a period she couldn’t hear and more. When I have told the doctors about my concerns for my kids, my doctor said: You have healthy kids, 90% of my practice has these ailments. There are lots of kids today that are sicker than that.
    After doing lots of research on vaccines I decided to go with my intuition. You can not compare the unvaccinated to the vaccinated. It is like two different things.
    If vaccines are supposed to make children healthier why are so many kids so sick?
    54% of children today are living with a chronic illness.
    Everyone needs to make a risk/benefit analysis, and that can only be done when you know the facts.
    Everyone should be making there own research as in medical books vaccines are not heavily discussed.
    The doctors are only told that it is safe, effective, saves lives, this is the schedule and they need to memorize it. They are also taught how to convince mothers to give and if they don’t want to, to be thrown out of the practice. For a doctor to realize that they cause more danger than good they need to really look out for it and do their own research. As again, my pediatrician laughed off all things that happened to my children right after vaccines as it is just correlation, happening at the same time. Correlation is if it happens once in a few years to 1 patient in the practice, but if so many mothers are saying it, it’s a signal that needs to seriously be looked into. Many mothers continue giving even after they see side effects because they are convinced that those effects are worth it for the price of the diseases they are being immunized for. First start by finding out about those illnesses. In my opinion a week of measles is better than a lifetime of disease…. But everyone needs to look into for themselves.

    And just to note: Dr. Wertzberger has actually done one trial on a vaccine on the Heimishe community without notifying the parents. I wouldn’t listen to his opinion, as he used Yiddishe kinderlach as an experiment!

      • The New York State Legislature voted on a bill this week that the gaurdisel vaccine may given without parent consent.

      • I know of someone that was part of the trial (immigrant from Argentina) and was told it is something that is given in the US.
        She only found out about the trial later.
        Maybe some were told, but why would a mother agree to have her child injected with something that is as of yet not approved?

        • my son was given a not yet approved pneoma(I do not no how to spell this word) vaccine and it was the greatest thing that happen to him- I did give my approvell before the Dr. gave it to him

  4. To EVEE you as a parent may or may not have the right to not vaccinate your own children but why should my children be exposed to your choices that I and millions of people believe is based on junk science that hasn’t been proven but that is your choice that you are entitled to make in your own home but who give you the right to expose my children and grandchildren in the schools and should and parks we share chas vchallilah if gets sick because of your decision I believe that you are a rodef and will have to answer accordingly you are putting young and sickly people in risk of DEATH. So why don’t you follow what the Satmar Rebbe suggests open your own schools and shuls and stay away from the rest of us thank you

    • “that I and millions of people believe is based on junk science”
      It’s not about “belief” over here. If you have any science to prove that they are safe, bring it on,
      otherwise being on the same side of “millions of people” would not have you being Jewish…
      and then again… maybe you’re not.

    • Anyone who says it’s junk science I’ll bet he hasn’t done thorough research, reading information laid forth by both sides. Actually, most of our science is based on the CDC’s papers. (What they haven’t done.)

  5. To Evee and other misled people:
    I’m not sure where you and others got their fake news from, but ALL doctors are trained on vaccines the same way as they are trained on any medication or treatment. They learn about benefits and risks and discuss the risk:benefit ratio the same as they do with any other treatment. And, yes, they are taught that in the case of vaccines the risk:benefit ratio is overwhelmingly in favor of vaccines as that has been scientifically proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. And they are indeed taught the skills to help convince hesitant parents about why they should vaccinate – the same as they are taught the skills to convince the parents of a diabetic child that their child needs insulin. As for Evee’s experience between her vaccinated and unvaccinated children, most people would understand (as did her doctor-although he was perhaps not as empathetic as he might have been) that her “data” is scientifically meaningless. The numbers – 100’s of millions – refute her very limited “data.” And, yes, doctors do – and should – ask non-vaccinating parents to leave their practice – not because they don’t like you but because it is unethical to put their other patients at risk.

    • You hit the nail on the head – these people don’t even understand the most basic elementary things about scientific process, statistics, controlled testing, research methods – and that’s before even getting into the topics themselves which are quite complicated and require years of study across many fields. But of course someone with a minimal STEM education who spends even a few dozen hours on Google knows better

      • Funny. You have no idea yourself. The statistics that you believe “prove” vaccines work are 100% worthless and invalid.

        You see, doctors typically refuse to diagnose the condition if the patient is vaccinated – a self-fulfilling prophecy. So the so-called vaccine preventable diseases (all of them) have been renamed not reduced.

        Doctors are brainwashed into believing that vaccines work so it makes sense to them not to diagnose (or even test for) a condition if the patient is vaccinated. Some will, in some rare circumstances but most won’t.

        Measles, polio, diphtheria, pertussis, even smallpox – they have all just been renamed.

        For example, rates of paralysis and congenital defects have *increased* since the polio and rubella vaccines.

  6. Evee is not claiming to basing his/her opinion on science, junk or otherwise. He/she is basing it on ‘intuition’.

    It is indeed a sad day when people make life and death decisions according to intuition.

    We have been infected by Goyishe ideas of democracy and freedom. Rav Elyashiv was clear in his opinion, that not only are the anti-vaxxers claims irrelevant, they do not even have the right to make decisions for their own children. We cannot practically kidnap children and vaccinate them, but their parents are doing something wrong to their own children. They are not the property of their parents.

    And just one halachic point, even if the claims of the anti-vaxxers were true, halacha would still permit vaccination. שמר פתאים ה’ is the rule, not statistics.

    And to the person who claims that one in ten children have adverse reactions – please. Try a more sophisticated lie. Most people have enough family members to know how true that is. And I read that link. All it says that 2.6% of vaccinations possibly caused reactions. It did not decide that 2.6% did cause anything and that study, according to its abstract, is preliminary. I would claim that the reason you guys have to resort to sophistry and fake links, is because…….

    • You are terribly mistaken on your halachic views. There isn’t no שומר פתאים ה׳ when it is שכיחי היזיקא so you are wrong and foolish to rely on that. What is therefore upon us to determine is if it really is שכיחי היזיקא

      • Nobody even claimed it is שכיחי היזיקא. Even the anti vaxxers aren’t claiming that a huge percentage of people are getting ill from vaccines. And as long as they have not proven the connection, שומר פתאים ה’ still applies. Right now, almost everyone vaccinates and children are not dying in the masses. That is all שומר פתאים ה’ needs. Just like it is not ossur to eat potato chips.

  7. Hershy: The NYS Legislature has come out with a law that you can give the gaurdisel vaccine without parent consent.

  8. Evee, I have close to thirty descendants and not a single one has a chronic disease. From here do you get the 54% hogwash?

  9. To all of you that are either stating I use junk science or go by my intuition have definitely missed the point.
    The science is on the side of those questioning vaccine safety. I am still waiting for those provax doctors and nurses to give me science. All they can say is 1. You are a mother and don’t know 2. correlation doesn’t equal causation 3. there are studies done 4. it is safe. and answers that have no basis to the truth. Whenever I ask a too intelligent question, all they do is rant on how ignorant I am. I have even offered people thousand dollars for each study proving all they are claiming and still haven’t got the study. This is blind faith. People throw words around as if the science is on there side, but unfortunately it is not.
    And about the intuition thing, yes, first it was my intuition and that led me to look into science and saw the truth. Luckily I looked into it before the many adverse reactions that are reported.
    Just this week I called to ask what national crisis happened in the past 20-30 years that the vaccine schedule more than doubled, the respond was you don’t know anything and you are young and stupid, with ranting and raving that I didn’t go to med. school and I am a young parent, clueless and so on. Why doesn’t anyone have responses to my answers?
    I have a list of approximately 20 questions that nobody has an answer to.
    Does that make vaccines good as a science or religion, where you just need to believe all that is being said about it?????

  10. And those that are scared my children will cause illness to them, they don’t have the illness, they are just not protected against it. And fyi neither are the vaccinated. True a large percentage of measles cases are the unvaccinated because they exposed their children purposely to get the benefits of measles and to get titers to get back to school. However I know of more than a dozen of adults that have been fully vaccinated, got the measles at age 30, 35, 40, 45 way after the vaccine wore off. At that age measles is definitely more difficult than at the natural age Hashem intended kids to get it at. Measles is not dangerous, however it will when the fully vaccinated adults will get it in their senior years, and then there statement that measles is deadly might come true….
    Bear in mind, protection comes from Hashem not from vaccines.

  11. Einer Aza shomer pisoyim Hashem would only be relevant if you are ignorant on the topic. But those that looked into it, and see the data are actually prohibited to give vaccines as they can not and should not willingly inject dangerous poisons into their child’s body as a prevention measure, which the risk far outweighs the benefit.
    Many doctors mean well, but don’t have the time to look into the information and just take the information taught in medical school and written in medical journal that are paid off by pharma.
    For those choosing to stay ignorant, I daven for you and your children that Hashem should protect you, even if the science is that it causes more bad than good.
    May Hashem lift the gezeira and allow intelligent human beings to open their eyes to the truth and seek the information before it is too late.

  12. “And just one halachic point, even if the claims of the anti-vaxxers were true, halacha would still permit vaccination. שמר פתאים ה’ is the rule, not statistics.”
    Clearly ‘שמר פתאים ד does not apply here, for reasons that I don’t know. (I’m am not a posek) As there are too many stories of injuries.

  13. this whole article looks strange, there planty of solid top nationally recongnized doctors’ testimonies are being presented to the vaccine court that resulted in 4b worth of payments, wake up my brothers , we are all being manipulated by fake news. We are leaving in shas hashmad, what will it take us to wake up. Only love to each other and deep respect will bring us salvation, but thank h”m that there rebbe sensed that the situation is much more complex than it looks in the fake news ,

  14. For the sake of truth it is possible that her children did have negative reactions to vaccines and it was a prudent decision on her part. BUT that is not the rule for just about everyone I know.

  15. Evee:
    what other health related improvements have you made in your family’s lifestyle that may also be contributing to their better health?
    54% of today’s children live with chronic illness????? huh???? where did you get THAT from???? did you think into it and realize that that makes absolutely no sense? Think of your neighbors’ kids. how many have a chronic illness???
    And just to note: Dr. Wertzberger’s self made study was not done in a way that can potentially harm anyone that was involved. too complex to expand on over here.

    • Didn’t make any lifestyle changes, just stopped vaccinated and stopped giving medication every time the doctors prescribe it.
      54% is not my numbers, they are numbers from the CDC.
      Chronic illness can be serious like cancer and not as serious as asthma, severe allergies, psoriasis, hypothyroid and more….
      My own pediatrician told me that wheezing is normal in kids and many other issues my kids had my pediatrician claimed as normal. He has told me that my kids are healthy compared to most kids in his practice and that was before I stopped vaccinating. I didn’t think the issues my kids had were NORMAL and now that I have some unvaccinated kids I clearly see they were not.

  16. So according to the rebbe every child at 2 months should have open heart surgery to change all arteries veins and heart valves so he will be imuned to heart problems for life despite the fact that people die from heart surgery.
    Also as soon the second set of teeth are grown you should exchange them with implants to be imuned to tooth problems for life despite that people die from the needl.

    • [ive never commented here before.] i hope your joking. really, ur comment of taking what the rebbe said to a ridiculous conclusion. [and this has nothing to do with the topic of vaccines]

      • What I assume Yanky is trying to point out a very strong point. The Rebbi is comparing death from heart surgery as same as vaccine injury when they are two different things. A heart surgery is performed on someone that has a heart problem and needs to be saved. Vaccines are given to healthy kids!!!! How can you compare a procedure being done to someone to save their life after they are unwell, to a procedure done to a healthy child that has so many risks and according to the literature (from reputable scientists) the risks outweigh the benefits of the vaccines.

        • People have to understand that this blame game has been going on for 60+ years and wont go away anytime soon…until autism is better understood there will always be a popular theory to blame someone for its cause. The vaccinations theory has merely been the latest way to blame it on the medical world.
          See the following article:
          Vaccination as a cause of autism—myths and controversies https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5789217/

  17. There is a misconception here.
    The doctors are not necessarily benefited via pharmaceutical.
    Doctors are enslaved under CDC dictatorship, I bet you that there are out there hundreds of thousands of doctors knowing and thoroughly understanding the anti vaxx assertion, but the minute they dare to voice their opinion they are out of business.
    So indirectly they are completely sold to the CDC.
    Well respected Dr Werzberger is not excluded from this nisoyion (test) being a well respected doctor with a nice outfit in KJ and no doubt that the second he utters an anti vaxx word, he is history.
    How wisdomfull are chazals words toiv sh’berofim l’gehanum.

    • interesting way of putting the whole conspiracy theory.
      and any reason why they don’t speak the whole “truth” the day they retire??

      • 2 points
        1. Alot of anti vaxx intelligence indeed comes from retired doctors from the past which took their courage and spoke out.
        2. Now a-day when CDC dictatorship is at its peak, which doctor will try to speak out while retiring? It’s either they will be bombarded with loss suits for misleading their patients ,or perhaps fear of terminating their pension.

  18. I am actually in favor of the Rebbi’s idea to open our own schools.
    We won’t need to worry about catching viruses from live vaccines.
    We wont need to be made fun of when we have concerns about vaccine safety that has affected our children.
    However, I highly doubt the Rebbi would say that had he have the information straight.
    My prayers are that Hashem should open the heart of all Rabanim, Askanim and that every single Yid should know about the fraud associated with vaccines. Hopefully before the injury hits very close to home.
    MANY people I know that are against vaccines are victims to its dangers.
    May everyone be zoche to look into it honestly just by hearing the thousands of mothers worldwide that lost their children to vaccines.

  19. And I neglected to add to my list of professional organizations the fact that 99+% of physicians, 99+% of nurses, 100% of federal, state, and local health departments, 100% of school districts, 100% of hospitals and health centers all firmly support full vaccination. But, of course, the whole world is wrong and only you handful of anti-vaxxers is right! LOL! Anti-vaxxers, it’s time to admit defeat and give it up. If you persist in thinking that “evil big Pharma” and the “bought-out professional organizations” are wrong about vaccines, then you’d better stop treating your high blood pressure, your high cholesterol, your diabetes, your heart disease, your asthma, your infections, and your cancer because – guess what? – it’s the EXACT SAME pharmaceutical companies and professional organizations that invented, recommend, and sell all of the medications for those diseases! (And if you stop doing that, I guess our anti-vaxxer problem will take care of itself!). If you want to persist in your nonsense, the only recourse is what the Satmar Rav, shlit”a said: go move to your own corner of the world and make your own schools, Shuls, and camps and stop interfering with the frum community. That will also finally stop the terrible chillul Hashem – the worst since yidden first game to this country – that has been perpetrated by the anti-vaxxers.

    • In pre-Nazi Germany, there was a culture of Jews with negativity (pareve word?) towards other Jews. You can trace our history and find similar situations prior to all our galusim and situations within galus (going back to Yosef Hatzadik). Depending on which glasses you look through, you may something different. Looking from a higher perspective, I can see Yad Hashem controlling these things (doesn’t HE control everything?), and a pattern. Brother against brother …. -> -> -> followed by anti-semitism from the outside.
      But again, you choose which glasses to look through.
      People who don’t vaccinate have bechira, and so do people who do vaccinate. And the bechira doesn’t begin and end with the vaccination choice alone. You can choose whether to hate others for their choice of whether or not to vaccinate. It IS a choice that you make.

      Goyim hating yidden, IS NOT a choice that they make, it’s Halacha. Halacha he beyadua, she-aisav sonay l’Yaakov.

      And this is the beauty of the GreaterLakewood site. Gracefully allowing people to have an opinion without being hateful (or close-minded).

      • Wow – thank you! We manually approve each & every comment. We allow in about 90%. Personal nasty comments or ones that can be used against Yidden in general…are not approved – but thanks for the feedback!

    • Science is ALWAYS evolving!
      In many instances those that were shunned when they came up with something new in science were found to be accurate years later. We might be the minority now, but I am sure the TRUTH will prevail. And when the consensus will be that vaccines KILL, DESTROY and was a bad invention and did more harm than goog, your kids will have the dangerous poisons in their bodies and ours will not.

      • I remember when CDC/FDA wisdom preached that
        1. nursing is unhealthy
        2. only margarine/trans-fat is the healthy fat
        3. eggs are dangerous
        now all above are history

        saturated fat danger is on its way to history
        so its just a matter of time when vaccine will be history

        so basically the pro vaxx movement is is a religion called CDC

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